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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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ears gene Steinberg tonight Nick Redfern

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serves a dual purpose on the para cast

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Chris is off on assignment so we have

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Nick Redfern who and is our guest

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co-host and our guest so in a sense

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you're serving double duty

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it's a duality right Nick but I wanted

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to talk first about last week's episode

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I know Nick didn't hear it and he will

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shortly we featured Ruben your tape but

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also Harry Drew who has been

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investigating for some years a series of

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supposed UFO landings and/or crashes in

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Kingman Arizona I had a few problems

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with the way presented he's kind of one

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of those people who was so filled with

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information he has a difficulty

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organizing the information no insult

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intended I know Chris is impressed with

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him and his knowledge I'll be talking to

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him at that UFO convention in Northern

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California so hopefully we'll get some

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more information about it but part of

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the problem is that maybe the sourcing

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that Harry was using for Kingman wasn't

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quite as authentic as it could be I

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don't know in any case our guest this

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evening Nick Redfern did an article for

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mysterious universe called the Kingman

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saucer and the contactee in a sense

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relating the reports of a Kingman UFO

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event to a very famous UFO contactee of

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the 1950s Nick would you explain

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yeah sure well I mean the Kingman story

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you know with in ufology goes back years

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I mean he actually first surfaced

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publicly at least in 1971 when two young

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UFO researchers interviewed a guy named

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Albert Stansell who later was put under

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a pseudonym a fritz werner by researcher

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ray fowler you know the story publicly

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at least goes back now 41 years that's

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only first surface this story of a

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crashed UFO somewhere near Kingman or in

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the Kingman area with a small alien body

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on board allegedly and

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you know over the years various people

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have come forward and added sort of

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different bits and pieces to the store

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you know from their own perspectives etc

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and and some of them have more validity

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than others some of them have some

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validity some of them are very

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intriguing Liberty others have no

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validity at all you know and like any

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controversial UFO case I guess but I

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think that's the one thing that keeps

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the Kingman story alive is you know that

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it's it's an old case it's been public

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for decades

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you know people still keep coming

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forward on it so you know we can

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potentially at least look at the

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possibility that something happened but

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yeah one of the sort of weirdest angles

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to this whole affair was a very

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little-known one and it deals with a an

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equally controversial case that of a

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1950s contactee named Truman betherine

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and claims sort of like flirty night

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time own encounters with this sort of

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hot space alien woman named captain or

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Lorraine's of a non-existent planet

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called Clarion which is supposedly on

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the other side of the other Sun but of

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course it isn't and and basically back

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to him you know this had claimed all

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these encounters at a place called more

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than Mesa in Nevada although a lot of

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people dismiss his story actually I was

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like a lot of aspects to it sort of more

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Eli would like a hypnopompic hypnagogic

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type experience I don't think it's

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coincidental as I point out that you

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know this XP all these experiences with

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this so-called captain all arranged it

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was going to take him away this far away

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space world where happening at the time

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he was going through bad times with his

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wife which also ended in divorce I think

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he well I don't actually think he was a

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hoax I think it was like a fascinating

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case in sort of psychology psychology

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that it's someone like a psychiatrist

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would have a great time evaluating now

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would you suggest let me ask you here

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Nick would you suggest then that perhaps

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bathroom was dreaming about his

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encounters with aura Raines well

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claiming not in the sense of a regular

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dream but almost you know like I mean I

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don't believe he was hoaxes you know I

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don't think he was just had an

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occasional dream I think it was more of

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he was in such a stressed-out state with

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his divorce coming up and

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like that that he actually found himself

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sort of retreating subconsciously into

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this fantasy world that got more and

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more convoluted and complex as time went

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on and you know to where he actually

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began to believe it and he's

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subconscious filled in the gaps possibly

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I think is a way to try and make life

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easy for him you know he's subconscious

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sort of kicked in you know kind of in a

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very different way but in a similar way

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that when somebody sees a car accidents

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something like that very bad one often

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they can't remember it afterwards I see

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subconscious protecting you I think it

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may have been better ins way of that how

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continuing and again I don't think it's

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a coincidence that he's wife number

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three after we divorce that one name was

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alveolar Roberts which is you know same

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initials or arranged Elvira Robert so I

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think there's like a classic case of you

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know that were a psychologist who didn't

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wasn't aware of the case would pick this

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story to pieces but from the perspective

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of finding a fascinating case study what

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for all that fed better and story called

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the border Flying Saucer was published

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in 1954 and he told of meeting captain

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or Lorraine's and you know the rest of

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the crew so to speak on one occasion out

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of seven or eight actually very close to

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Kingman and contrary to what you know a

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lot of the contactees are saying at the

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time but you know there was sort of six

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to seven foot tall blond haired space

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for the types bathrooms weren't they

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were like they look like I said eyelid

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colored skin they were sort of four to

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five feet or wore these sort of

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tight-fitting uniforms and skull caps

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now that is exactly what several of the

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kingman witnesses to the crash door

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reported years later most prominently

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arthur stancil who said the body he saw

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was small wearing a skullcap with an

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olive colored scheme etc etc let me ask

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you a question here is it possible that

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stencils remembrances of the case tore

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stories about the case were based on

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what he remembered from reading the book

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by Truman bathroom oh yeah that's

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entirely possible

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you know it could be that one is

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embroidered upon the other by Stansell

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zone admission

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because he told the story originally to

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two young UFO research is literally like

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teenagers at the time by his own

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admittance he's unlike his martini when

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he started telling the story that was an

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interesting point here that when he

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began to tell these stories each martini

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would help him to further embellish the

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details well yeah I mean when he told

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the story to write Fowler three years

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later or two years later he admitted

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that he was under the influence

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you know these martinis at the time and

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he actually told a very different story

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to tell them that he told to these two

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kids for example in the story told to

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Fowler the thing that came down at

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Kingman was like a 25 to 30 foot disc he

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told the two kids that it was like a

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streamlined piece of fuselage about 12

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feet long which is very different you

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know and it's difficult to sort of

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reconcile has somebody other course of

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two years can mistake a 30-foot saucer

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for a 12-foot to 15-foot piece of

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fuselage like an aircraft fuselages but

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you know if you go back and look at the

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historical record that's exactly what he

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said insane all that as well

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you know stancel wasn't some fans assist

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I mean he had a very strong good

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background you know he was actually in

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the Second World War you know he's

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involved in the Normandy landings after

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the war you know he had major scientific

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credentials work with the Air Force he

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worked with the Atomic Energy Commission

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so you know he's not somebody who made

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up a background or even one that was

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open to question was anyone able to

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verify his background that that's what

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he was oh yeah I mean I've got a file on

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the reason I wrote the Kingman article

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and also a lengthier paper for a book

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that no page books put out last year

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I've got like a four-inch thick file on

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the Kingman play on the Kingman case

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okay you know the water Joe could do an

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entire book about it and you know it's

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absolutely milled out who he who he is

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who he was you know I've got photographs

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of his grave and you know which sort of

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celebrates his life and everything else

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and you know it's yeah I mean there's no

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doubt that he was who he claimed to be

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the same thing I worry about though the

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thing I worry about

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though Nick is I'd like to see what was

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in those martinis that each successive

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martini would bring forth more and more

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fascinating revelations about what might

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have happened at Kingman but if we

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follow what Harry Drew is saying it

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wasn't just one crash or crash landing

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it was several I want to ask you if you

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know more about that in a moment we have

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Nick Redfern he is of course an author

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and commentator he's covered 14 events

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for a number of years author of many

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fascinating books and tell you about

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some of them very shortly Chris

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O'Brien's on assignment with Jean

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Steinberg and Nick Redfern you're in the

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[Music]

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hey neighbors you've seen all those

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do you find all that stuff you go to as

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seen on tv comm because this is the

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one-stop source for all of these TV

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use the code scene 1 scen number 1 scene

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your favorite ice cream is now 14 ounces

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instead of a pint round-trip airfare

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into nine major cities has increased 44

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percent in just one year ask your 18 to

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25 year old what it cost to buy some

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nice fashionable jeans $300 and yet not

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one person in a hundred realizes these

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319
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320
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better we'd like to hear from you

321
00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:04,670
if you have a comment a question about

322
00:14:11,230 --> 00:14:07,910
the para cast sent it to news at the

323
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:11,240
para cast com that's news at the para

324
00:14:16,690 --> 00:14:13,850
cast dot-com and don't forget to visit

325
00:14:20,579 --> 00:14:16,700
our famous para cast community forums at

326
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:20,589
forum dr. Peric ask.com

327
00:14:26,740 --> 00:14:23,690
Nick Redfern serving double duty he is

328
00:14:28,510 --> 00:14:26,750
both guests and guest co-host Chris

329
00:14:31,990 --> 00:14:28,520
O'Brien's on assignment preparing to

330
00:14:35,199 --> 00:14:32,000
present a lecture at a UFO convention in

331
00:14:39,550 --> 00:14:35,209
any case we are exploring what might be

332
00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:39,560
going on in kingman arizona in 1953 now

333
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:41,510
Harry Drew told us when he was on the

334
00:14:46,690 --> 00:14:43,730
show last week that there were a three

335
00:14:51,010 --> 00:14:46,700
events consisting of one landing a

336
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:51,020
disabled UFO and two crashes and I have

337
00:14:54,010 --> 00:14:52,490
to point out as some of our listeners

338
00:14:57,550 --> 00:14:54,020
might have realized in listening last

339
00:14:59,980 --> 00:14:57,560
week's show I was quite frankly very

340
00:15:02,110 --> 00:14:59,990
confused about the presentation because

341
00:15:04,060 --> 00:15:02,120
he had difficulty separating the events

342
00:15:06,250 --> 00:15:04,070
and I couldn't follow them very well so

343
00:15:09,310 --> 00:15:06,260
Nick we're talking about a single event

344
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:09,320
when we remember this particular guy

345
00:15:17,170 --> 00:15:12,890
this Arthur Stansel but what about the

346
00:15:19,660 --> 00:15:17,180
story about other UFO events in 1953 and

347
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:19,670
Kamin well you know I mean I don't know

348
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:21,290
anything specific about any other

349
00:15:25,810 --> 00:15:23,570
crashes I mean I can tell you that you

350
00:15:27,970 --> 00:15:25,820
know German bathrooms case you know just

351
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:27,980
literally on the fringes of kingman in

352
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:30,800
the same roof roughly the same area was

353
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:32,810
described as a landing you know he

354
00:15:35,889 --> 00:15:34,490
described as a landing and supposed to

355
00:15:37,870 --> 00:15:35,899
be aliens getting there whether that

356
00:15:40,630 --> 00:15:37,880
ties in you know I don't know but what I

357
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:40,640
can say and this you know this place is

358
00:15:45,850 --> 00:15:43,910
a very different angle on its is the

359
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:45,860
stand saw was attached to the

360
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:47,450
Atomic Energy Commission he was also

361
00:15:51,819 --> 00:15:49,600
involved in Atomic Energy Commission

362
00:15:54,190 --> 00:15:51,829
series of atomic bomb tests that were

363
00:15:57,009 --> 00:15:54,200
going on in Nevada at the time which had

364
00:15:58,630 --> 00:15:57,019
the codename operation upshot not whole

365
00:16:00,730 --> 00:15:58,640
that was the name of the program and

366
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:00,740
it's a verified declassified program now

367
00:16:04,540 --> 00:16:02,480
a lot of the files have been made

368
00:16:07,210 --> 00:16:04,550
available one of the interesting things

369
00:16:09,699 --> 00:16:07,220
about you know this case is of course

370
00:16:12,670 --> 00:16:09,709
Nevada borders Arizona in terms of

371
00:16:14,710 --> 00:16:12,680
aviation you know the the distance from

372
00:16:16,810 --> 00:16:14,720
the dilaudid testing ground to kingman

373
00:16:19,329 --> 00:16:16,820
isn't that far really you know it's only

374
00:16:21,819 --> 00:16:19,339
one state away at the best of times one

375
00:16:25,750 --> 00:16:21,829
of the missions that we know went ahead

376
00:16:27,670 --> 00:16:25,760
germ is upshot not whole program was it

377
00:16:28,210 --> 00:16:27,680
was actually exactly a secret thing at a

378
00:16:31,630 --> 00:16:28,220
time

379
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:31,640
the airforce reconverted several of its

380
00:16:36,759 --> 00:16:34,130
fighter planes so they could load

381
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:36,769
monkeys onboard these monkeys they're

382
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:38,570
basically drone aircraft a radio

383
00:16:42,970 --> 00:16:40,970
controlled from the ground and they were

384
00:16:45,130 --> 00:16:42,980
flown through the mushroom clouds to try

385
00:16:47,860 --> 00:16:45,140
and determine how pilots could be

386
00:16:49,329 --> 00:16:47,870
protected from radiation exposure in the

387
00:16:51,069 --> 00:16:49,339
event of like a nuclear attack or

388
00:16:53,079 --> 00:16:51,079
nuclear war and so they had these

389
00:16:55,420 --> 00:16:53,089
chimpanzees and sorry chimpanzees not

390
00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:55,430
monkeys dressed in sort of flight so

391
00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:56,720
it's kind of like you know when the

392
00:17:00,400 --> 00:16:58,490
chimpanzees were sent into space a

393
00:17:03,009 --> 00:17:00,410
little flight suits skullcaps

394
00:17:04,210 --> 00:17:03,019
and they were sat in the aircraft go

395
00:17:06,220 --> 00:17:04,220
through the mushroom player then they

396
00:17:08,380 --> 00:17:06,230
bring him back and just money to know

397
00:17:10,569 --> 00:17:08,390
the next few days and weeks to see you

398
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:10,579
know if the protected clothing they put

399
00:17:14,530 --> 00:17:13,010
one in you know and the another one they

400
00:17:15,970 --> 00:17:14,540
didn't put much on him and the other one

401
00:17:18,039 --> 00:17:15,980
they left him naked you know and it was

402
00:17:20,770 --> 00:17:18,049
to see how they would have be affected

403
00:17:22,659 --> 00:17:20,780
by exposure now there is a story that

404
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:22,669
one of these aircraft going off course

405
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:25,329
and crashing and being the subject of

406
00:17:30,669 --> 00:17:28,250
security and coverup etc not so much

407
00:17:33,460 --> 00:17:30,679
because it was any advanced technology

408
00:17:34,990 --> 00:17:33,470
but simply because if anybody you know

409
00:17:36,669 --> 00:17:35,000
from the Soviets or whatever got wind of

410
00:17:38,380 --> 00:17:36,679
what was going on they would know that

411
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:38,390
experiments were being done to determine

412
00:17:42,909 --> 00:17:41,090
how successfully American troops could

413
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:42,919
survive you know a Russian attack so

414
00:17:47,260 --> 00:17:45,290
there wasn't the secrecy angle now when

415
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:47,270
you look at that if we look at that

416
00:17:51,130 --> 00:17:49,250
story if one of these fighter planes

417
00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:51,140
crashed and he had on these chimpanzees

418
00:17:55,030 --> 00:17:52,640
on board in his little flight suit and

419
00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:55,040
skulker and the aircraft broke up and

420
00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:57,650
the body was found inside the fuselage

421
00:18:01,599 --> 00:17:59,840
that would actually go along very

422
00:18:03,639 --> 00:18:01,609
without the stanchions original story

423
00:18:05,469 --> 00:18:03,649
about a small body and a piece of

424
00:18:07,089 --> 00:18:05,479
wreckage that was fuselage shaped and

425
00:18:09,159 --> 00:18:07,099
silver which we know a tie with an

426
00:18:11,709 --> 00:18:09,169
aircraft very fact that stanza was

427
00:18:13,959 --> 00:18:11,719
attached to this metallic energy bomb

428
00:18:16,180 --> 00:18:13,969
test program you know where the

429
00:18:18,969 --> 00:18:16,190
chimpanzees were used he's even more

430
00:18:21,369 --> 00:18:18,979
intriguing I have to wonder if the whole

431
00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:21,379
thing is a distortion are the very real

432
00:18:27,729 --> 00:18:25,609
event in which a semi classified vehicle

433
00:18:29,259 --> 00:18:27,739
crashed and that did have a small body

434
00:18:32,289 --> 00:18:29,269
on board and that was subject to

435
00:18:34,149 --> 00:18:32,299
official secrecy now again by Stancil

436
00:18:35,589 --> 00:18:34,159
donor mission he was initially told and

437
00:18:37,959 --> 00:18:35,599
wrote in his own diary actually have

438
00:18:40,570 --> 00:18:37,969
copies of his diary from that Bell

439
00:18:43,629 --> 00:18:40,580
entire period his diary actually says

440
00:18:46,089 --> 00:18:43,639
that he was initially told that this was

441
00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:46,099
a secret us experimental aircraft that

442
00:18:50,589 --> 00:18:47,809
had come down and he said he was only

443
00:18:52,419 --> 00:18:50,599
later he was told it was a UFO so you

444
00:18:54,729 --> 00:18:52,429
know if you look at the initial story I

445
00:18:56,739 --> 00:18:54,739
think it's quite explainable you know

446
00:18:58,659 --> 00:18:56,749
but the weird thing is if that is really

447
00:19:00,399 --> 00:18:58,669
what happened you know it's like well

448
00:19:01,959 --> 00:19:00,409
did Sherman bathroom get wind of what

449
00:19:04,659 --> 00:19:01,969
had happened as well I mean boarded that

450
00:19:06,609 --> 00:19:04,669
into his 1954 book but if he did how did

451
00:19:08,349 --> 00:19:06,619
you do it yeah well the thing I also

452
00:19:10,599 --> 00:19:08,359
wonder about here is how did one event

453
00:19:13,810 --> 00:19:10,609
become three well the only thing I could

454
00:19:15,399 --> 00:19:13,820
say is that it's like an aircraft crash

455
00:19:17,769 --> 00:19:15,409
I mean if Isis hypothesized that

456
00:19:20,079 --> 00:19:17,779
something did come down land crash crash

457
00:19:22,239 --> 00:19:20,089
land you know it's very seldom that

458
00:19:24,339 --> 00:19:22,249
unless some a big lumbering plane goes

459
00:19:26,499 --> 00:19:24,349
vertically into the ground you know you

460
00:19:28,839 --> 00:19:26,509
often do fire material spread over at

461
00:19:30,489 --> 00:19:28,849
different sites I mean for example you

462
00:19:33,369 --> 00:19:30,499
know where I grew up in Britain you know

463
00:19:35,589 --> 00:19:33,379
1988 we had the terrorist attack that

464
00:19:37,239 --> 00:19:35,599
blew up a jumbo jet over Scotland and

465
00:19:39,369 --> 00:19:37,249
you know which came down at a place

466
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:39,379
called la curbing a little town but

467
00:19:43,570 --> 00:19:41,570
wreckage was found all over the place in

468
00:19:45,549 --> 00:19:43,580
four months afterwards you know so in

469
00:19:47,169 --> 00:19:45,559
that sense depending on the height of

470
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:47,179
the object the speed whatever you did

471
00:19:50,259 --> 00:19:48,559
you explode in the air you know you

472
00:19:52,749 --> 00:19:50,269
could conceivably have more than one

473
00:19:54,369 --> 00:19:52,759
site you know if something broke up with

474
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:54,379
somebody managed to sort of glide part

475
00:19:58,599 --> 00:19:57,679
of a vehicle down you know that's that's

476
00:20:02,229 --> 00:19:58,609
a possibility

477
00:20:04,629 --> 00:20:02,239
basically therefore the fact that there

478
00:20:07,659 --> 00:20:04,639
are multiple areas where the wreckage

479
00:20:10,239 --> 00:20:07,669
was found could create the climate for

480
00:20:12,339 --> 00:20:10,249
expecting this to be multiple events

481
00:20:13,539 --> 00:20:12,349
rather than a singular event well yeah

482
00:20:15,549 --> 00:20:13,549
because I mean you know if you

483
00:20:17,889 --> 00:20:15,559
got somebody out in the desert I mean

484
00:20:19,930 --> 00:20:17,899
let's just hypothesize that it's a UFO

485
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:19,940
and it breaks up in the air with ten

486
00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:22,369
thirds of it come down in one area then

487
00:20:26,499 --> 00:20:24,320
you have a you know partly gets blasted

488
00:20:28,570 --> 00:20:26,509
out and you know just sort of come

489
00:20:30,879 --> 00:20:28,580
sprinkle into the ground and then a

490
00:20:32,139 --> 00:20:30,889
body's found somewhere else you know and

491
00:20:34,419 --> 00:20:32,149
you've got rumors about the military

492
00:20:35,940 --> 00:20:34,429
securing one site and another kind of

493
00:20:37,869 --> 00:20:35,950
like Roswell really you know it's like

494
00:20:40,539 --> 00:20:37,879
regardless of what happened at Roswell

495
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:40,549
or didn't you know most researchers

496
00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:42,799
agree that there are at least sort of

497
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:44,809
several sites of whatever it was you

498
00:20:48,940 --> 00:20:47,090
know even the Mogul balloon people you

499
00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:48,950
know sort of forced to agree that it

500
00:20:54,039 --> 00:20:51,289
didn't all come definitely one place now

501
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:54,049
the one thing about Kingman in addition

502
00:20:58,720 --> 00:20:55,850
to that is it doesn't seem to be as

503
00:21:01,479 --> 00:20:58,730
widely accepted as R as well I know for

504
00:21:03,639 --> 00:21:01,489
example Kevin Randall doesn't believe in

505
00:21:06,220 --> 00:21:03,649
kingman and i think largely because of

506
00:21:08,019 --> 00:21:06,230
his suspicions about arthur stencil and

507
00:21:10,599 --> 00:21:08,029
the fact that his story changes with the

508
00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:10,609
number of martinis he consumes no you're

509
00:21:16,149 --> 00:21:12,289
right I mean I think there's two things

510
00:21:17,470 --> 00:21:16,159
you can say about Kingman their arms in

511
00:21:18,879 --> 00:21:17,480
its but well that's what you say but

512
00:21:20,859 --> 00:21:18,889
one's not it's definitely not in its

513
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:20,869
favor and that's stanzler's change in

514
00:21:25,930 --> 00:21:23,690
story the other thing that is not so

515
00:21:27,729 --> 00:21:25,940
much not in its favor but it's been

516
00:21:30,489 --> 00:21:27,739
underreported one of the things I've

517
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:30,499
found is a lot of researchers actually

518
00:21:34,810 --> 00:21:32,450
have stories relative to Kingman and

519
00:21:38,229 --> 00:21:34,820
varying credibility's Kevin Randall and

520
00:21:40,330 --> 00:21:38,239
Dan Schmidt had one there was the

521
00:21:41,739 --> 00:21:40,340
original one from Ray Fowler the you

522
00:21:45,399 --> 00:21:41,749
know ultimately service from these two

523
00:21:47,379 --> 00:21:45,409
years old kids Leonard Stringfield got

524
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:47,389
hold of a number of stories

525
00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:51,200
allegedly of UFO crashes in Arizona in

526
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:53,809
April 53 you know this is one month

527
00:21:58,889 --> 00:21:56,210
before Kingman but it wasn't specified

528
00:22:01,539 --> 00:21:58,899
as Kingman other guy named bill uhouse

529
00:22:04,090 --> 00:22:01,549
sort of a guy who claimed to have been

530
00:22:05,619 --> 00:22:04,100
employed at area 51 said he knew about

531
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:05,629
the Kingman story and said there were

532
00:22:10,210 --> 00:22:08,330
four alien bodies not one so in other

533
00:22:12,159 --> 00:22:10,220
words that it's a it's an interesting

534
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:12,169
story because there are actually when

535
00:22:18,340 --> 00:22:14,450
you dig into a lot of leads it's not

536
00:22:20,109 --> 00:22:18,350
been Nick on one person who may or may

537
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:20,119
not have been vibe too much before he

538
00:22:24,430 --> 00:22:22,129
starts to remember these things Chris

539
00:22:26,810 --> 00:22:24,440
O'Brien is on assignment this week over

540
00:22:30,090 --> 00:22:26,820
at the UFO con

541
00:22:32,009 --> 00:22:30,100
2012 in Santa Clara California he'll be

542
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:32,019
reporting about that and lots more next

543
00:22:37,169 --> 00:22:34,720
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621
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623
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629
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631
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[Music]

650
00:27:13,630 --> 00:27:08,210
we all threw up on this reading and

651
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:13,640
listening to the paragraphs I have Nick

652
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:15,650
Redfern joining us as a guest in guest

653
00:27:19,690 --> 00:27:17,690
co-host crystal Brian's on assignment

654
00:27:21,490 --> 00:27:19,700
and we're going to have a wide-ranging

655
00:27:23,410 --> 00:27:21,500
discussion about the future of ufology

656
00:27:27,130 --> 00:27:23,420
and a few other things but we want to

657
00:27:29,170 --> 00:27:27,140
start with some remembrances about the

658
00:27:31,780 --> 00:27:29,180
evidence with regard to Kingman Arizona

659
00:27:34,030 --> 00:27:31,790
whether there were UFO crashes there and

660
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:34,040
of course Harry Drew has done some

661
00:27:38,110 --> 00:27:36,290
extensive investigation in recent years

662
00:27:40,150 --> 00:27:38,120
and part of the problem as we always

663
00:27:41,650 --> 00:27:40,160
encounter here is you know Nick when

664
00:27:43,860 --> 00:27:41,660
you're trying to put together pieces of

665
00:27:46,450 --> 00:27:43,870
something that happened 59 years ago and

666
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:46,460
you don't really have direct witnesses

667
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:48,320
necessarily alive anymore and maybe

668
00:27:52,030 --> 00:27:50,330
there wasn't a newspaper story about it

669
00:27:52,540 --> 00:27:52,040
it's pretty difficult to put things

670
00:27:54,190 --> 00:27:52,550
together

671
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:54,200
well you're right and that's why you

672
00:27:59,400 --> 00:27:57,410
know some of these cases go from being a

673
00:28:01,450 --> 00:27:59,410
case of something having happened to

674
00:28:03,370 --> 00:28:01,460
essentially a piece of folklore because

675
00:28:06,130 --> 00:28:03,380
there are you know a lot of different

676
00:28:08,590 --> 00:28:06,140
leads and strands and inevitably then

677
00:28:11,020 --> 00:28:08,600
different theories and ideas develop you

678
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:11,030
know I would arguably say that Roswell

679
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:12,530
has already gone into that category

680
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:15,410
because you know with Roswell even

681
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:17,090
though you know there countless people

682
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:18,890
come forward most of them are now gone

683
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:22,640
so now it's down to sort of turf war and

684
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:24,530
upholding this theory or that theory

685
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:26,570
because we're at stalemate you know and

686
00:28:30,430 --> 00:28:28,730
even the government admits well we look

687
00:28:31,540 --> 00:28:30,440
for files and we couldn't find any you

688
00:28:33,370 --> 00:28:31,550
know it's like contrary to what people

689
00:28:35,260 --> 00:28:33,380
think the government didn't say oh we

690
00:28:37,090 --> 00:28:35,270
found files on mogul the prove it was

691
00:28:39,340 --> 00:28:37,100
that they said we didn't find anything

692
00:28:40,780 --> 00:28:39,350
but that's what we think it is I think

693
00:28:43,030 --> 00:28:40,790
that's where we're at with Kingman it's

694
00:28:44,110 --> 00:28:43,040
for all intents and purposes it's 60

695
00:28:46,930 --> 00:28:44,120
years old you know

696
00:28:49,180 --> 00:28:46,940
for that reason arguably there's

697
00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:49,190
probably nobody left you know other than

698
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:50,720
you know if you had a bunch of sort of

699
00:28:54,460 --> 00:28:53,090
20 year old kids guarding the site of

700
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:54,470
whatever it was well they're going to be

701
00:28:58,660 --> 00:28:56,240
80 you know who's to say they're they're

702
00:29:01,390 --> 00:28:58,670
still fully functioning the mind anyway

703
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:01,400
well I hope I'm fully functioning in the

704
00:29:06,850 --> 00:29:04,250
mind at 80 and I certainly look to Jim

705
00:29:10,150 --> 00:29:06,860
Mosely at 81 as an example of somebody

706
00:29:11,650 --> 00:29:10,160
who is fully functioning at least in

707
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:11,660
terms of his intellect so I guess it's

708
00:29:16,460 --> 00:29:14,310
possible but this is not then a coal

709
00:29:19,370 --> 00:29:16,470
case put a frozen case in most respects

710
00:29:22,820 --> 00:29:19,380
well it is in the sense that you know

711
00:29:24,410 --> 00:29:22,830
how do we take it further I think if it

712
00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:24,420
was sort of like an aircraft with

713
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:26,430
chimpanzees on board and we think before

714
00:29:29,780 --> 00:29:27,930
people rolled their eyes you know I've

715
00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:29,790
got those files in the National Archives

716
00:29:36,590 --> 00:29:32,310
proving that those experiments occurred

717
00:29:38,510 --> 00:29:36,600
in May 53 as a part of the atomic energy

718
00:29:40,820 --> 00:29:38,520
program and of course that's when the

719
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:40,830
crash has occurred kingman supposedly

720
00:29:47,930 --> 00:29:45,360
may 1953 yeah exactly and so you know

721
00:29:49,930 --> 00:29:47,940
for that reason we are at stalemate but

722
00:29:51,890 --> 00:29:49,940
i mean if that angle mob we still can be

723
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:51,900
potentially might be able to take that

724
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:54,240
further as far as the UFO angle is

725
00:29:58,210 --> 00:29:56,010
concerned you know I mean it's like any

726
00:30:00,770 --> 00:29:58,220
crash case that we just never get

727
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:00,780
documentation confirming it you know we

728
00:30:05,300 --> 00:30:03,120
get confirmation of something having

729
00:30:07,130 --> 00:30:05,310
happened that we put crashes they never

730
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:07,140
go any further and you know I'd be

731
00:30:13,010 --> 00:30:09,690
surprised if this one did you know it's

732
00:30:15,140 --> 00:30:13,020
just the further he goes on the more it

733
00:30:17,330 --> 00:30:15,150
becomes folkloric but I don't mean by

734
00:30:19,730 --> 00:30:17,340
that the paper line but it just becomes

735
00:30:23,270 --> 00:30:19,740
a piece of Americana or whatever you

736
00:30:26,420 --> 00:30:23,280
know basically then unless Harry drew

737
00:30:28,250 --> 00:30:26,430
can produce a miracle this may be just

738
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:28,260
another cold case that we can talk about

739
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:30,330
but maybe never get to the bottom of

740
00:30:34,490 --> 00:30:32,370
well you know I mean something might

741
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:34,500
turn up one day my view on all these

742
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:36,930
crashes is that something probably will

743
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:39,570
turn up if they were anything but a UFO

744
00:30:44,420 --> 00:30:42,450
crash you know it's like if they were

745
00:30:46,490 --> 00:30:44,430
UFO crash well the government's not

746
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:46,500
going to tell us anyway but if they

747
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:47,850
weren't but there was some sort of

748
00:30:51,890 --> 00:30:50,370
classified program then I think that

749
00:30:54,170 --> 00:30:51,900
actually is one day a chance of

750
00:30:56,390 --> 00:30:54,180
something you know servicing into the

751
00:30:59,540 --> 00:30:56,400
public domain I mean it was a story you

752
00:31:01,160 --> 00:30:59,550
know just a few months ago about a crash

753
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:01,170
off Scotland of something in the early

754
00:31:04,490 --> 00:31:02,850
sixties you know which has all the

755
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:04,500
ingredients of Roswell sort of strange

756
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:07,170
materials story hidden under a balloon

757
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:10,410
cover and you know it turned out to be a

758
00:31:16,220 --> 00:31:13,530
classified US balloon based payload type

759
00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:16,230
situation but again you know provoked

760
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:17,760
all these rumors about the military

761
00:31:21,980 --> 00:31:19,770
cordon off the site and which did happen

762
00:31:23,930 --> 00:31:21,990
but it was you know this finally exposed

763
00:31:26,780 --> 00:31:23,940
because he turned out other mundane

764
00:31:28,220 --> 00:31:26,790
explanation and I think the less mundane

765
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:28,230
the less likely of getting the true

766
00:31:33,409 --> 00:31:30,720
the more mundane but it's still hidden

767
00:31:35,180 --> 00:31:33,419
behind a you know a fantastic legend but

768
00:31:36,980 --> 00:31:35,190
the more Monday the bigger chance of

769
00:31:40,009 --> 00:31:36,990
getting the answers at him and you also

770
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:40,019
have to think if it was just a secret

771
00:31:45,830 --> 00:31:42,960
weapon of some sort having it thought to

772
00:31:47,870 --> 00:31:45,840
be a UFO would actually keep the secret

773
00:31:49,610 --> 00:31:47,880
of what it really was well I mean II

774
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:49,620
would but I've never sort of been

775
00:31:53,899 --> 00:31:51,510
impressed with the idea of hiding stuff

776
00:31:55,639 --> 00:31:53,909
behind a crash gee I can understand how

777
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:55,649
people might believe it was a crashed

778
00:31:59,480 --> 00:31:57,450
UFO is from a distance they saw all this

779
00:32:01,909 --> 00:31:59,490
wreckage and a small body but never

780
00:32:04,279 --> 00:32:01,919
really understood the scenario of hiding

781
00:32:07,159 --> 00:32:04,289
him behind a UFO because arguably that

782
00:32:09,470 --> 00:32:07,169
attracts more attention you know it's

783
00:32:11,629 --> 00:32:09,480
like well if it was a crashed aircraft

784
00:32:13,789 --> 00:32:11,639
at Kingman we wouldn't be looking at it

785
00:32:15,710 --> 00:32:13,799
now if it wasn't for the UFO angle so I

786
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,720
guess also the point being that if we

787
00:32:21,139 --> 00:32:18,000
were experimenting with disc shaped

788
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:21,149
aircraft back in the early 1950s okay

789
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:24,240
it's 2012 who cares anymore well yeah I

790
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:25,529
mean it's kind of what Roswell that's

791
00:32:28,730 --> 00:32:27,450
the one thing about Roswell you know

792
00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:28,740
that we even the Air Force never

793
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:31,049
satisfactorily explained you know they

794
00:32:34,879 --> 00:32:33,330
said the weather balloon was a cover for

795
00:32:36,590 --> 00:32:34,889
a mogul story but they sort of

796
00:32:38,899 --> 00:32:36,600
conveniently never really addressed the

797
00:32:40,399 --> 00:32:38,909
issue of why the Air Force initially

798
00:32:42,409 --> 00:32:40,409
said it was a flying disc

799
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:42,419
you know if they'd have things I just

800
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:45,090
first said it was a weather balloon but

801
00:32:47,539 --> 00:32:46,320
we hate it behind you know it was a

802
00:32:49,220 --> 00:32:47,549
mogul below but we hid it behind a

803
00:32:51,620 --> 00:32:49,230
weather balloon scenario that'll be more

804
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:51,630
plausible but they've never really

805
00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:53,370
explained that angle of why they first

806
00:32:56,659 --> 00:32:54,809
said it was a flying disc you know why

807
00:32:58,250 --> 00:32:56,669
not first say it was a weather balloon

808
00:33:00,560 --> 00:32:58,260
if you want to hide another balloon you

809
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:00,570
know sounds strange or maybe some

810
00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:02,250
incompetence on the part of some public

811
00:33:05,899 --> 00:33:04,049
information person there is of course

812
00:33:07,639 --> 00:33:05,909
one other crash I can mention very

813
00:33:10,580 --> 00:33:07,649
briefly we've done a couple of shows on

814
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:10,590
that is the so-called Aztec crash we had

815
00:33:13,789 --> 00:33:12,480
Scott and Suzanne Ramsey on the show

816
00:33:15,799 --> 00:33:13,799
they came out with their book after all

817
00:33:18,019 --> 00:33:15,809
these years then we had Kevin Randall

818
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:18,029
who refuted everything saying that the

819
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:20,880
one or two real alleged witnesses were

820
00:33:25,549 --> 00:33:23,370
not credible and that's the beginning

821
00:33:27,860 --> 00:33:25,559
and the end of it what's your take well

822
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:27,870
yeah I mean it's like I think there's

823
00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:29,519
even less than they at least evidence

824
00:33:36,169 --> 00:33:31,830
for Aztec then there is you know for

825
00:33:38,509 --> 00:33:36,179
Kingman but Aztec is a fascinating story

826
00:33:41,629 --> 00:33:38,519
because also you know it's sort of

827
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:41,639
perceived by many has been a major you

828
00:33:44,810 --> 00:33:41,970
know

829
00:33:46,610 --> 00:33:44,820
- UFO event and even if it isn't you

830
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:46,620
know it's an integral part of ufology

831
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:48,450
and some people say well if it's a hoax

832
00:33:52,490 --> 00:33:50,250
or didn't happen how could it be a part

833
00:33:55,130 --> 00:33:52,500
of youth ology but the fact is you know

834
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:55,140
when the whole crashed UFO thing kicked

835
00:33:59,690 --> 00:33:56,970
off in the late forties we Frank Scully

836
00:34:02,030 --> 00:33:59,700
you know this is a major part of flying

837
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:02,040
saucer history an activity at the time

838
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:03,930
you know there was loads of stories

839
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:06,330
flying around that crashed UFOs many

840
00:34:12,050 --> 00:34:10,170
linked to Aztec now one of the more

841
00:34:14,330 --> 00:34:12,060
controversial angles came from the like

842
00:34:16,670 --> 00:34:14,340
car luck mayne call a lot of people

843
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:16,680
don't know this but we actually were

844
00:34:21,890 --> 00:34:19,770
going to write a book on Aztec and it's

845
00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:21,900
gonna be called stylus for magnificence

846
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:23,310
because one the main players in the

847
00:34:28,220 --> 00:34:25,290
story or arguably the main player was a

848
00:34:31,700 --> 00:34:28,230
guy named Silas Newton it was like you

849
00:34:33,710 --> 00:34:31,710
know like a cross between a used car

850
00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:33,720
salesman and somebody who just milk you

851
00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:35,250
for every penny you know he had all

852
00:34:41,050 --> 00:34:38,730
these sort of fancy fake devices of

853
00:34:44,030 --> 00:34:41,060
locating oil doodle blood type you know

854
00:34:45,740 --> 00:34:44,040
technologies that sort of thing sounds

855
00:34:49,070 --> 00:34:45,750
like the character that you'd make into

856
00:34:51,290 --> 00:34:49,080
a movie - the book it was gonna be about

857
00:34:53,660 --> 00:34:51,300
him but with the the cornerstone would

858
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:53,670
be his involvement in this Aztec scam if

859
00:35:01,520 --> 00:34:56,010
you like the what was interesting is a

860
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:01,530
car back in 1998 actually had several

861
00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:03,450
meetings face to face meetings with a

862
00:35:10,430 --> 00:35:06,510
relative of Silas Newton who provided

863
00:35:13,850 --> 00:35:10,440
not provided allowed in to see Newton's

864
00:35:16,930 --> 00:35:13,860
journal from 1970 through 1971 which

865
00:35:19,190 --> 00:35:16,940
talks about Aztec and in that journal

866
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:19,200
Newton talks about how on several

867
00:35:23,330 --> 00:35:21,690
occasions he was visited by people who

868
00:35:25,490 --> 00:35:23,340
didn't identify but he talked about them

869
00:35:27,020 --> 00:35:25,500
being government or military people who

870
00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:27,030
told him they knew that the whole last

871
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:29,280
text or it was a scam but they wanted

872
00:35:34,820 --> 00:35:33,450
him to keep telling it now okay - now

873
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:34,830
this kind of sounds interesting because

874
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:37,170
this deals with an aspect of ufology

875
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:39,690
that wasn't really popular him discuss

876
00:35:43,940 --> 00:35:42,240
about their noni disinformation and yet

877
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:43,950
Newton was talking about in his journal

878
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:46,170
in the 70s and he said that the visit

879
00:35:49,450 --> 00:35:47,760
occurred in the early fifties you know

880
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:49,460
where the Air Force or whoever it was

881
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:52,530
wanted him to spread a fake story about

882
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:54,210
crashed UFOs and of course Carl

883
00:35:57,770 --> 00:35:55,680
speculated

884
00:36:00,890 --> 00:35:57,780
you know was it was this just not in

885
00:36:03,049 --> 00:36:00,900
another layer to the hoax or was it a

886
00:36:04,250 --> 00:36:03,059
case of an early disinformation program

887
00:36:06,500 --> 00:36:04,260
to hide something else or a

888
00:36:08,450 --> 00:36:06,510
psychological warfare operation to scare

889
00:36:10,190 --> 00:36:08,460
the Russians into thinking we could

890
00:36:12,490 --> 00:36:10,200
alien technology you know so would I be

891
00:36:15,470 --> 00:36:12,500
UFO researchers spread the story

892
00:36:19,069 --> 00:36:15,480
regardless you know it sounds like an

893
00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:19,079
early disinfo up and newton was brought

894
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:21,240
in to help sort of perpetuate it

895
00:36:26,420 --> 00:36:24,450
you know what Leonardo DiCaprio should

896
00:36:30,730 --> 00:36:26,430
become the person who plays Silas Newton

897
00:36:37,490 --> 00:36:34,730
assignment and we have a fun-filled

898
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:37,500
session with Jean Steinberg and Nick

899
00:36:48,610 --> 00:36:41,010
Redfern you're in the podcast ha ha

900
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:51,160
are you tired of searching for great

901
00:36:59,290 --> 00:36:54,290
talk-radio more important search from

902
00:37:01,510 --> 00:36:59,300
over we are the gcn radio network we

903
00:37:04,810 --> 00:37:01,520
also have swag you know we have all

904
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:04,820
these exclusive para cast things that

905
00:37:10,420 --> 00:37:07,370
you can buy we've got like I guess 60 or

906
00:37:13,990 --> 00:37:10,430
so different items and entails t-shirts

907
00:37:17,290 --> 00:37:14,000
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908
00:37:19,660 --> 00:37:17,300
cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo

909
00:37:21,460 --> 00:37:19,670
tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

910
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:21,470
jackets and stuff like that for men and

911
00:37:27,250 --> 00:37:24,710
women we have a para cast aluminum water

912
00:37:29,950 --> 00:37:27,260
bottle all the stuff you go to store dot

913
00:37:32,650 --> 00:37:29,960
to the power cast com stored dot the

914
00:37:35,230 --> 00:37:32,660
power cast com what makes special is

915
00:37:38,170 --> 00:37:35,240
that the items are the best quality of

916
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:38,180
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917
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official logo on them that's what makes

918
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:42,110
them special multiple sizes and colors

919
00:37:47,530 --> 00:37:45,170
we even have stuff for children stuff

920
00:37:50,260 --> 00:37:47,540
for women's stuff for men we have all

921
00:37:52,570 --> 00:37:50,270
sorts of sizes like small up 2x large

922
00:37:55,450 --> 00:37:52,580
what good stuff that's the swag from the

923
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924
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925
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that's what it sounds like when a

926
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:03,830
burglar kicks in the door of a dark

927
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:05,810
house that looks like no one is home

928
00:38:09,460 --> 00:38:07,610
don't let your home be the next target

929
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make it look like someone is home

930
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watching television with fake TV fake TV

931
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is a small electronic device that makes

932
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the same light as a real television so

933
00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:17,960
from outside it looks like someone is

934
00:38:22,540 --> 00:38:20,510
home watching TV fake TV plugs in just

935
00:38:23,770 --> 00:38:22,550
like a lamp on a timer but is far more

936
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convincing to burglars

937
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fake TV deters burglars costs far less

938
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than an alarm and is highly recommended

939
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by numerous police departments use it

940
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941
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942
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943
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944
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945
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948
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950
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951
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952
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953
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954
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955
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956
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961
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962
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963
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965
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967
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968
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971
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973
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974
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975
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976
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977
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978
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979
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possible I'm listening and get with the

980
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981
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997
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[Music]

998
00:41:20,809 --> 00:41:18,979
he does it well he's one of the best who

999
00:41:22,969 --> 00:41:20,819
does the para Cass other than Chris of

1000
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:22,979
course and bright is Abel and a few

1001
00:41:28,279 --> 00:41:24,930
others who've tried you know when we

1002
00:41:30,950 --> 00:41:28,289
should have a para cast bake-off where

1003
00:41:34,789 --> 00:41:30,960
everyone who says the para cast tries

1004
00:41:37,789 --> 00:41:34,799
and then we have a contest and our

1005
00:41:39,979 --> 00:41:37,799
listeners decide who does it best I know

1006
00:41:40,430 --> 00:41:39,989
I want to be new food because I like

1007
00:41:42,049 --> 00:41:40,440
them all

1008
00:41:44,359 --> 00:41:42,059
you know Chris is my good buddy and

1009
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:44,369
Nick's my friend Bryce Abel and all

1010
00:41:48,049 --> 00:41:45,599
these other people who've done it I

1011
00:41:50,229 --> 00:41:48,059
don't want to say we were focusing here

1012
00:41:53,089 --> 00:41:50,239
on the early legends of UFO crashes

1013
00:41:54,650 --> 00:41:53,099
certainly in Kingman Arizona which maybe

1014
00:41:56,299 --> 00:41:54,660
or maybe not deserves further

1015
00:41:59,029 --> 00:41:56,309
investigation let's see what Harry Drew

1016
00:42:01,969 --> 00:41:59,039
comes up with by the way Chris is going

1017
00:42:03,709 --> 00:42:01,979
to be talking to Harry in person at this

1018
00:42:05,509 --> 00:42:03,719
UFO convention in Northern California

1019
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:05,519
which is taking place probably by the

1020
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:06,960
time you hear the show so we're not

1021
00:42:11,269 --> 00:42:08,910
going to really mention it okay and the

1022
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:11,279
key being however is that maybe Chris

1023
00:42:15,259 --> 00:42:12,930
will get some more information that we

1024
00:42:17,779 --> 00:42:15,269
can go on you know help somebody here is

1025
00:42:19,459 --> 00:42:17,789
a dedicated historian who wants to try

1026
00:42:22,370 --> 00:42:19,469
to find out what's going on Nick Redfern

1027
00:42:24,890 --> 00:42:22,380
let's discuss a couple of other subjects

1028
00:42:28,700 --> 00:42:24,900
here and one is you have a blog called

1029
00:42:30,559 --> 00:42:28,710
Nick Redferns world of whatever and you

1030
00:42:32,180 --> 00:42:30,569
have a some advice for ufologists before

1031
00:42:34,549 --> 00:42:32,190
we go to the future of your college II I

1032
00:42:37,700 --> 00:42:34,559
want to go to this ten best or worst

1033
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:37,710
list that you did you follow just do not

1034
00:42:42,890 --> 00:42:40,319
do these things okay so if you want to

1035
00:42:43,339 --> 00:42:42,900
investigate UFOs this is what you don't

1036
00:42:45,170 --> 00:42:43,349
do

1037
00:42:47,539 --> 00:42:45,180
you can take it seriously or not I'm

1038
00:42:49,009 --> 00:42:47,549
gonna read the 10 best list and should I

1039
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:49,019
read from the bottom up where the

1040
00:42:51,049 --> 00:42:49,920
doesn't matter

1041
00:42:53,329 --> 00:42:51,059
I don't know well they're in no

1042
00:42:55,729 --> 00:42:53,339
particular order I just thought of as I

1043
00:42:58,130 --> 00:42:55,739
fell like dairyman some advice to you

1044
00:43:00,739 --> 00:42:58,140
follow just in no particular order Nick

1045
00:43:02,630 --> 00:43:00,749
Redfern recommending the things you

1046
00:43:04,039 --> 00:43:02,640
should not do if you want to be a UFO

1047
00:43:05,630 --> 00:43:04,049
investigator I'm gonna listen cuz I

1048
00:43:07,039 --> 00:43:05,640
don't do these things you know I don't

1049
00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:07,049
claim to know anything I'm just a talk

1050
00:43:10,579 --> 00:43:08,400
show host that way I can get away with

1051
00:43:12,529 --> 00:43:10,589
saying anything and people say well he's

1052
00:43:13,790 --> 00:43:12,539
just an entertainer who cares Nick

1053
00:43:16,430 --> 00:43:13,800
Redfern

1054
00:43:18,740 --> 00:43:16,440
one the mysterious middle initial what

1055
00:43:20,690 --> 00:43:18,750
are we talking about well you know that

1056
00:43:23,150 --> 00:43:20,700
success sort of deals for me we like the

1057
00:43:26,180 --> 00:43:23,160
Pampas side of things of ufology where

1058
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:26,190
you know suddenly my my middle name is

1059
00:43:29,660 --> 00:43:28,050
David you know it's kind of like if I

1060
00:43:31,130 --> 00:43:29,670
was to write a book where instead of

1061
00:43:34,430 --> 00:43:31,140
putting Nick Redfern it sort of becomes

1062
00:43:37,730 --> 00:43:34,440
Nicholas D Redfern kind of funny where

1063
00:43:39,230 --> 00:43:37,740
somebody who's used a particular way of

1064
00:43:41,330 --> 00:43:39,240
using the name for years they have a

1065
00:43:43,250 --> 00:43:41,340
book out and suddenly you know becomes

1066
00:43:44,900 --> 00:43:43,260
all formal and official and like that's

1067
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:44,910
going to make any difference whatsoever

1068
00:43:49,010 --> 00:43:46,770
to the credibility or not to what the

1069
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:49,020
writing about because they put the first

1070
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:51,210
name you know at the full length and

1071
00:43:54,530 --> 00:43:53,280
insert the middle initial you know and

1072
00:43:56,810 --> 00:43:54,540
the interesting thing here the other

1073
00:43:59,000 --> 00:43:56,820
fact I should mention Nick is that with

1074
00:44:02,810 --> 00:43:59,010
the middle initial you do it without the

1075
00:44:03,700 --> 00:44:02,820
period okay that adds a special I don't

1076
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:03,710
know

1077
00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:15,650
prestige to it some people have actually

1078
00:44:19,130 --> 00:44:17,730
names with middle initials that don't

1079
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:19,140
mean anything like Forrest J Ackerman

1080
00:44:29,090 --> 00:44:26,570
the famous sci-fi personality and author

1081
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:29,100
Forrest J Ackerman but J didn't stand

1082
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:31,440
for anything harry s truman you know

1083
00:44:36,860 --> 00:44:34,250
harry s truman the s and harry s truman

1084
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:36,870
the late President of the United States

1085
00:44:41,870 --> 00:44:39,690
didn't me anything was a letter s mmm

1086
00:44:44,180 --> 00:44:41,880
well you know because it rolls off the

1087
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:44,190
tongue and people you know probably

1088
00:44:48,170 --> 00:44:46,410
remember it which you know I understand

1089
00:44:51,590 --> 00:44:48,180
that but for me I still find you know

1090
00:44:53,330 --> 00:44:51,600
kind of amusing that people people do it

1091
00:44:54,710 --> 00:44:53,340
thinking oh I've got a book it so I've

1092
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:54,720
got to do that do you know what I mean

1093
00:45:00,260 --> 00:44:56,370
it's like it's it's like almost

1094
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:00,270
subconsciously required that you've got

1095
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:02,010
to put your name in full and gotta if

1096
00:45:06,350 --> 00:45:03,450
you've got a middle name we've got to

1097
00:45:08,980 --> 00:45:06,360
use it okay or what you can do instead

1098
00:45:11,900 --> 00:45:08,990
of saying Nicholas David Redfern and

1099
00:45:14,570 --> 00:45:11,910
David Redfern what's even more

1100
00:45:16,100 --> 00:45:14,580
ridiculous isn't it I don't have a

1101
00:45:18,290 --> 00:45:16,110
middle name they didn't give me one they

1102
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:18,300
gave my brother Wally a middle name

1103
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:20,970
Wallace Herbert Steinberg but when they

1104
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:22,890
came out with gene no middle name oh

1105
00:45:26,660 --> 00:45:25,170
well I feel I feel slighted

1106
00:45:28,820 --> 00:45:26,670
number two what letter

1107
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:28,830
after the name letters after the name

1108
00:45:33,830 --> 00:45:30,720
like for example I could say Jean

1109
00:45:38,810 --> 00:45:33,840
Steinberg BLT that's by the way for

1110
00:45:41,690 --> 00:45:38,820
bacon lettuce tomato get it well yeah I

1111
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:41,700
mean you know it's like if you got

1112
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:42,960
letters after your name in this

1113
00:45:47,060 --> 00:45:44,400
discipline or that discipline that's

1114
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:47,070
fine if the thing you're working on an

1115
00:45:51,860 --> 00:45:49,530
investigating is relative to that

1116
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:51,870
particular area but the whole point

1117
00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:54,570
about the UFO mystery is UFO still

1118
00:45:58,100 --> 00:45:56,730
stands for unidentified flying object

1119
00:46:01,760 --> 00:45:58,110
you know and it's for you we really

1120
00:46:05,570 --> 00:46:01,770
after thugs on unidentified so in other

1121
00:46:08,750 --> 00:46:05,580
words if you have a background in that

1122
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:08,760
so we say advanced propulsion systems

1123
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:11,850
right so chemical rockets you know the

1124
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:15,810
early years of rocketry let's say you

1125
00:46:21,410 --> 00:46:18,210
have a background in you know chemical

1126
00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:21,420
rockets and whatever your letters after

1127
00:46:25,730 --> 00:46:23,520
your name you're credited credentials in

1128
00:46:28,490 --> 00:46:25,740
that field you use them when you're

1129
00:46:32,270 --> 00:46:28,500
talking about you know your research

1130
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:32,280
well that's fine if UFOs are powered you

1131
00:46:36,790 --> 00:46:34,410
know by chemical rockets but if they're

1132
00:46:38,570 --> 00:46:36,800
not it has no relevance whatsoever and

1133
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:38,580
doesn't help your case

1134
00:46:42,770 --> 00:46:41,040
so that's my point when we're dealing

1135
00:46:45,170 --> 00:46:42,780
with a phenomenon that's definitively

1136
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:45,180
unknown any sort of background or

1137
00:46:48,830 --> 00:46:46,770
discipline is irrelevant you know it's

1138
00:46:51,470 --> 00:46:48,840
kind of like if your background is in

1139
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:51,480
astronomy what good is it if the

1140
00:46:56,570 --> 00:46:54,450
phenomenons interdimensional you know if

1141
00:46:58,280 --> 00:46:56,580
you're a professor of astronomy and the

1142
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:58,290
phenomenon has nothing to do with outer

1143
00:47:02,270 --> 00:47:00,240
space but you're talking more about John

1144
00:47:04,310 --> 00:47:02,280
keels window areas and portals where

1145
00:47:06,190 --> 00:47:04,320
these things come through why is it

1146
00:47:09,110 --> 00:47:06,200
relevant well the answer is it is and so

1147
00:47:11,060 --> 00:47:09,120
letters are fine when you're working in

1148
00:47:12,820 --> 00:47:11,070
an identified realm and those letters

1149
00:47:16,460 --> 00:47:12,830
are relevant to it but when they're not

1150
00:47:18,980 --> 00:47:16,470
what why even mention it you know number

1151
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:18,990
three the UFO logical dress code now I

1152
00:47:26,990 --> 00:47:21,690
assume this is not wearing a black suit

1153
00:47:29,300 --> 00:47:27,000
with special black sunglasses right yeah

1154
00:47:31,550 --> 00:47:29,310
well again you know I mean it doesn't

1155
00:47:33,830 --> 00:47:31,560
yeah I don't care what people wear I

1156
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:33,840
know you know on a lecture circuit or

1157
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:35,850
doing TV or whatever that didn't bother

1158
00:47:39,620 --> 00:47:37,410
me in the slightest as long as they're

1159
00:47:40,490 --> 00:47:39,630
being true to themselves that's one of

1160
00:47:43,310 --> 00:47:40,500
the things you know

1161
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:43,320
it's this case where people on the

1162
00:47:46,730 --> 00:47:44,970
lecture circuit or on TV they feel

1163
00:47:48,260 --> 00:47:46,740
they've got a sort of live up to this

1164
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:48,270
image or bad image do you know what I

1165
00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:50,970
mean it's like why it's showbiz baby

1166
00:47:56,570 --> 00:47:54,480
it's showbiz well even if it is you can

1167
00:47:59,210 --> 00:47:56,580
still be yourself you know I mean I've

1168
00:48:02,599 --> 00:47:59,220
seen conferences where it's less about

1169
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:02,609
the data and more about the presentation

1170
00:48:07,310 --> 00:48:04,410
and pauses in the right place to get an

1171
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:07,320
applause the crisps so the nice watch

1172
00:48:13,250 --> 00:48:10,410
the freshly ironed Thai Polish Jews

1173
00:48:14,990 --> 00:48:13,260
which is fine if that's who you are but

1174
00:48:16,910 --> 00:48:15,000
you know don't stand in the front of the

1175
00:48:18,530 --> 00:48:16,920
mirror for three hours preparing a

1176
00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:18,540
speech like you have running for

1177
00:48:22,609 --> 00:48:20,730
president you know I think there are a

1178
00:48:24,140 --> 00:48:22,619
few UFO researchers who do this I won't

1179
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:24,150
name them it's not gonna make any

1180
00:48:28,099 --> 00:48:25,920
difference because one reason you're

1181
00:48:30,290 --> 00:48:28,109
talking about UFOs you not talking about

1182
00:48:32,330 --> 00:48:30,300
balancing the budget or reducing crime

1183
00:48:35,660 --> 00:48:32,340
or whatever you're talking about aliens

1184
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:35,670
and UFOs and flying saucers so in other

1185
00:48:39,050 --> 00:48:38,490
words whatever you wear Matt is not one

1186
00:48:41,089 --> 00:48:39,060
bit

1187
00:48:42,890 --> 00:48:41,099
because it's the data that matters and

1188
00:48:45,740 --> 00:48:42,900
of course most people don't care and

1189
00:48:48,620 --> 00:48:45,750
think it's all nonsense so however many

1190
00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:48,630
rows of neckties you've got it matters

1191
00:48:53,740 --> 00:48:51,599
not one little bit okay number four is

1192
00:48:56,060 --> 00:48:53,750
saying the right thing to the allegedly

1193
00:48:57,770 --> 00:48:56,070
influential people tell me oh yeah

1194
00:49:00,710 --> 00:48:57,780
kissing the you for logical ass

1195
00:49:02,060 --> 00:49:00,720
basically yeah I mean I you know I do a

1196
00:49:05,359 --> 00:49:02,070
lot of conferences and I and I

1197
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:05,369
unfortunately I say that a lot not where

1198
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:07,530
you know where I can tell you know the

1199
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:09,930
entire UFO research community and it's

1200
00:49:13,700 --> 00:49:12,240
not even anywhere near I would say 10%

1201
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:13,710
it's a very small percentage but when

1202
00:49:17,570 --> 00:49:15,510
you happen you know just embarrassing

1203
00:49:19,820 --> 00:49:17,580
the you know I've seen I've been to

1204
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:19,830
conferences where I know what one or two

1205
00:49:24,140 --> 00:49:22,530
over speakers vehemently disagree with

1206
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:24,150
some of the views of the conference

1207
00:49:27,530 --> 00:49:25,920
organizer but they won't bring that up

1208
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:27,540
in the lectures you know I actually know

1209
00:49:31,370 --> 00:49:29,010
a couple of people who specifically left

1210
00:49:33,710 --> 00:49:31,380
a certain part out current which was

1211
00:49:36,290 --> 00:49:33,720
basically commenting on one

1212
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:36,300
controversial case that they thought was

1213
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:38,010
complete nonsense and the host was

1214
00:49:42,890 --> 00:49:41,010
actually a champion of and they emitted

1215
00:49:45,380 --> 00:49:42,900
it from their lecture you know which to

1216
00:49:48,349 --> 00:49:45,390
me is like disgraceful it's being

1217
00:49:50,300 --> 00:49:48,359
regularly correct or an incorrect well

1218
00:49:53,790 --> 00:49:50,310
yeah it is but you should you shouldn't

1219
00:49:55,230 --> 00:49:53,800
be if you be politically correct by

1220
00:49:57,840 --> 00:49:55,240
sighs in your lecture well then you

1221
00:49:59,280 --> 00:49:57,850
idiots and by politically incorrect well

1222
00:50:00,690 --> 00:49:59,290
I don't actually think it is that I

1223
00:50:02,100 --> 00:50:00,700
think it's just saying what you think

1224
00:50:04,530 --> 00:50:02,110
you know and if somebody happens to

1225
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:04,540
disagree well big deal it's not the end

1226
00:50:08,670 --> 00:50:06,370
of the world that's what we really

1227
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:08,680
investigate and research not uphold

1228
00:50:12,990 --> 00:50:11,290
somebody else's view because you want to

1229
00:50:15,630 --> 00:50:13,000
be invited back next year and get you

1230
00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:15,640
your $300 fee or whatever it's not worth

1231
00:50:20,330 --> 00:50:18,250
for $300 now I'm not going to ask you to

1232
00:50:22,620 --> 00:50:20,340
use a certain word in number five

1233
00:50:24,660 --> 00:50:22,630
because of the obvious reasons of

1234
00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:24,670
commercial radio but creating an image

1235
00:50:28,890 --> 00:50:26,800
of don't talk to me I'm a famous

1236
00:50:31,290 --> 00:50:28,900
ufologist which is kind of like don't

1237
00:50:35,070 --> 00:50:31,300
talk to me I'm a star oh yeah yeah I

1238
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:35,080
mean that's something I see surprisingly

1239
00:50:38,550 --> 00:50:36,730
often behind the scenes at UFO

1240
00:50:40,530 --> 00:50:38,560
conferences you know I mean you know I

1241
00:50:42,780 --> 00:50:40,540
like to go to conferences and sit in the

1242
00:50:44,190 --> 00:50:42,790
audience you know and you know just

1243
00:50:45,450 --> 00:50:44,200
because you're UFO or it doesn't mean

1244
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:45,460
you don't hear the other lectures or

1245
00:50:48,810 --> 00:50:47,290
meeting you follow this you've never met

1246
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:48,820
before you know what I mean it's it's

1247
00:50:52,380 --> 00:50:50,170
cool to do that I'm not like to take

1248
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:52,390
books along and get them signed like

1249
00:50:56,100 --> 00:50:54,730
anybody else you want to be a member of

1250
00:50:58,740 --> 00:50:56,110
the audience you want to be a normal

1251
00:51:00,690 --> 00:50:58,750
person you want to be an inch you don't

1252
00:51:04,110 --> 00:51:00,700
want to be somebody who comes across

1253
00:51:06,750 --> 00:51:04,120
with a star and it maybe you have an

1254
00:51:09,390 --> 00:51:06,760
entourage it follows you and listens and

1255
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:09,400
hangs on your every word by the way we

1256
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:12,130
hang on every word from Nick Redfern

1257
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:14,170
because he's cool and we're talking

1258
00:51:19,620 --> 00:51:17,770
about and this is five so far the things

1259
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:19,630
you follow just should not do you follow

1260
00:51:23,100 --> 00:51:21,250
just do not do these things

1261
00:51:25,830 --> 00:51:23,110
Chris O'Brien's on assignment I'm Jean

1262
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:25,840
Steinberg and we have our guest co-host

1263
00:51:38,170 --> 00:51:28,890
Nick Redfern you're in the podcast

1264
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:41,750
the GC and radio network providing the

1265
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:44,970
world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

1266
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:49,650
and great talk radio starts here hi this

1267
00:51:53,810 --> 00:51:51,450
is Ted Anderson if you'd like to listen

1268
00:51:56,450 --> 00:51:53,820
to GCN programs on the goal I have great

1269
00:51:58,670 --> 00:51:56,460
news g ZN has created a droid and iphone

1270
00:52:00,980 --> 00:51:58,680
application and it's free just as easy

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00:52:02,900 --> 00:52:00,990
as going to GC and live.com click on the

1272
00:52:04,310 --> 00:52:02,910
banner and download before you know it

1273
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:04,320
you'll be listening to your favorite

1274
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:06,330
hard-hitting GCN shows live around

1275
00:52:10,970 --> 00:52:08,130
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00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:10,980
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1278
00:52:16,910 --> 00:52:14,940
banner at juicy and live.com thanks

1279
00:52:19,340 --> 00:52:16,920
again for listening to GC and live.com

1280
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:19,350
again that's juicy and live.com hi this

1281
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:21,090
is Ted Anderson have you ever wondered

1282
00:52:24,620 --> 00:52:22,770
why banks stockbrokers investment

1283
00:52:26,900 --> 00:52:24,630
advisors won't talk about gold IRAs

1284
00:52:28,670 --> 00:52:26,910
they've been available since 1986 yet

1285
00:52:30,530 --> 00:52:28,680
the financial industry won't recognize

1286
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:30,540
the value of gold for your attire mint

1287
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:32,490
gold has outperformed paper investments

1288
00:52:47,470 --> 00:52:34,650
yet no word about IRAs if you would like

1289
00:52:47,480 --> 00:53:03,750
806-853-9949

1290
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,580
[Music]

1291
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1293
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1294
00:53:17,390 --> 00:53:15,930
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1302
00:53:32,630 --> 00:53:30,540
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1304
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1305
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Tarragona calm or call toll-free 866

1306
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:42,180
three six nine three six seven eight

1307
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:44,160
that's eight six six three six nine

1308
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:46,890
three six seven eight pro em1

1309
00:53:49,650 --> 00:53:47,530
the

1310
00:53:55,050 --> 00:53:49,660
probiotic

1311
00:54:03,060 --> 00:53:58,780
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1312
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:03,070
standard of paranormal radio and now

1313
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:09,890
here's Jane Steinberg he's auditioning

1314
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:12,890
for the best recitation of the para cast

1315
00:54:16,530 --> 00:54:14,570
you noticed a does very well Nick

1316
00:54:18,700 --> 00:54:16,540
Redfern joining us as guest co-host

1317
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:18,710
talking about a lot of things we started

1318
00:54:21,670 --> 00:54:21,050
out with UFO crashes such as Kingman

1319
00:54:24,460 --> 00:54:21,680
Arizona

1320
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:24,470
an Aztec and then we've moved to

1321
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:26,930
ufologist don't do this stuff okay don't

1322
00:54:32,310 --> 00:54:29,810
do it okay this is number six and this

1323
00:54:36,099 --> 00:54:32,320
of course is one that really really

1324
00:54:39,790 --> 00:54:36,109
upsets me because it's done so often and

1325
00:54:43,150 --> 00:54:39,800
maybe it's a play on the words from the

1326
00:54:45,580 --> 00:54:43,160
x-files the truth is coming as opposed

1327
00:54:46,570 --> 00:54:45,590
to the truth is out there yeah sorry I

1328
00:54:48,940 --> 00:54:46,580
thought you were going to talk about the

1329
00:54:50,620 --> 00:54:48,950
other one about don't talk to me on the

1330
00:54:55,060 --> 00:54:50,630
stuff I kind of did it already I thought

1331
00:54:56,620 --> 00:54:55,070
we'd go past it I think it's so obvious

1332
00:54:59,710 --> 00:54:56,630
and implicit we don't need to get to a

1333
00:55:01,720 --> 00:54:59,720
new further let's the truth is out there

1334
00:55:04,210 --> 00:55:01,730
or the truth is coming now that one we

1335
00:55:05,950 --> 00:55:04,220
hear all the time yeah I mean a lot of

1336
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:05,960
people you know sort of type of you that

1337
00:55:10,090 --> 00:55:07,850
this angle of the government's going to

1338
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:10,100
disclose and you know somebody's got

1339
00:55:13,450 --> 00:55:11,930
inside the sauce is ready to come in you

1340
00:55:15,460 --> 00:55:13,460
know a week next Thursday or whatever

1341
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:15,470
you know that that's just not true

1342
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:18,410
you can go literally back to the days of

1343
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:20,810
Donald Kehoe he was told you know what

1344
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:22,130
one of these books I think it's flying

1345
00:55:27,220 --> 00:55:25,130
saucer conspiracy which exactly 53 you

1346
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:27,230
know he talks about how he supposed got

1347
00:55:30,849 --> 00:55:29,450
him inside a source who told him oh you

1348
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:30,859
know the government's gonna reveal it

1349
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:33,290
all in the next few months same thing

1350
00:55:39,370 --> 00:55:35,210
happened in the sixties ironically in

1351
00:55:41,620 --> 00:55:39,380
the FBI's 1700 page FBI Freedom of

1352
00:55:43,330 --> 00:55:41,630
Information file on UFOs there's an

1353
00:55:45,490 --> 00:55:43,340
anonymous letter in there where somebody

1354
00:55:47,740 --> 00:55:45,500
contacted the FBI and said I've been

1355
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:47,750
told by insider sources that the truths

1356
00:55:51,580 --> 00:55:49,970
coming easy really common when the FBI

1357
00:55:52,510 --> 00:55:51,590
wrote back said you know this is my

1358
00:55:54,250 --> 00:55:52,520
jurisdiction

1359
00:55:56,740 --> 00:55:54,260
then of course you know with the mj-12

1360
00:55:59,140 --> 00:55:56,750
stuff people were saying all this is you

1361
00:56:01,660 --> 00:55:59,150
know preparing the way for revelations

1362
00:56:04,810 --> 00:56:01,670
etc then you had the more sort of

1363
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:04,820
defined disclosure movement and so in

1364
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:06,890
other words pretty much since UFOs have

1365
00:56:09,220 --> 00:56:07,970
been on the table so

1366
00:56:11,020 --> 00:56:09,230
Speight people have been saying the

1367
00:56:13,089 --> 00:56:11,030
government's gonna reveal the truth and

1368
00:56:14,980 --> 00:56:13,099
he never comes if people actually look

1369
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:14,990
back at the man to child it's been said

1370
00:56:18,670 --> 00:56:17,090
people in sort of adhere to the

1371
00:56:21,580 --> 00:56:18,680
disclosure River might be actually

1372
00:56:24,099 --> 00:56:21,590
shocked to learn this goes back 60 years

1373
00:56:26,349 --> 00:56:24,109
and he tree services every four or five

1374
00:56:28,330 --> 00:56:26,359
six years you know I always wonder if

1375
00:56:30,339 --> 00:56:28,340
major Donald Kehoe were alive today and

1376
00:56:32,290 --> 00:56:30,349
he died I guess in the 1980s or

1377
00:56:34,990 --> 00:56:32,300
something like that he was born in 1897

1378
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:35,000
I interviewed him in the 1970s he was

1379
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:37,130
pretty alert guy and I never asked him

1380
00:56:40,170 --> 00:56:38,690
this question I kind of regret it now I

1381
00:56:42,370 --> 00:56:40,180
guess because I didn't have the time I

1382
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:42,380
would have wanted to say matric hijo

1383
00:56:47,890 --> 00:56:45,440
back in the 1950s with the book the

1384
00:56:49,570 --> 00:56:47,900
Flying Saucer conspiracy you thought the

1385
00:56:52,060 --> 00:56:49,580
truth would be out there it would be

1386
00:56:54,970 --> 00:56:52,070
revealed and now we're still talking and

1387
00:56:57,010 --> 00:56:54,980
it's not happening and the years after

1388
00:56:59,080 --> 00:56:57,020
Kehoe has left us it's still not

1389
00:57:00,460 --> 00:56:59,090
happening well yeah I mean it's like the

1390
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:00,470
disclosure movements I mean that's

1391
00:57:04,060 --> 00:57:02,330
that's actually not new now you know

1392
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:04,070
that goes but does that like a decade or

1393
00:57:08,859 --> 00:57:06,770
so disclosure in general I mean you know

1394
00:57:10,930 --> 00:57:08,869
that the concepts of it you know it's

1395
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:10,940
like it's gonna be put off or it's gonna

1396
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:12,650
be next year's me next year well you

1397
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:14,240
know how many next years does that have

1398
00:57:19,300 --> 00:57:16,730
to be before this is just realized as

1399
00:57:21,310 --> 00:57:19,310
the latest incarnation of the kayo era

1400
00:57:22,390 --> 00:57:21,320
or the mj-12 thing when the documents

1401
00:57:24,490 --> 00:57:22,400
were going out on the door to the next

1402
00:57:26,380 --> 00:57:24,500
thing or whatever yes it's like history

1403
00:57:27,460 --> 00:57:26,390
repeating itself repeating itself

1404
00:57:31,329 --> 00:57:27,470
repeating itself

1405
00:57:35,950 --> 00:57:31,339
number seven its et forever

1406
00:57:38,290 --> 00:57:35,960
18 18 yeah I mean again I'm not saying

1407
00:57:40,089 --> 00:57:38,300
that the UFO phenomenon isn't or parts

1408
00:57:42,700 --> 00:57:40,099
of the arms related to the

1409
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:42,710
extra-terrestrial hypothesis we don't

1410
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:44,450
have any proof that extraterrestrials

1411
00:57:48,010 --> 00:57:45,440
are visiting the earth you have a

1412
00:57:49,900 --> 00:57:48,020
hypothesis and a belief system but

1413
00:57:52,420 --> 00:57:49,910
that's what's going on now that may well

1414
00:57:55,690 --> 00:57:52,430
be the case but if we don't have proof

1415
00:57:57,609 --> 00:57:55,700
then for us to ignore all the different

1416
00:57:59,680 --> 00:57:57,619
theories that exist beyond that he's

1417
00:58:03,220 --> 00:57:59,690
just stupid you know because it becomes

1418
00:58:06,339 --> 00:58:03,230
you know like a Christian arguing with a

1419
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:06,349
Buddhist versus an a Hindu you know or

1420
00:58:10,089 --> 00:58:07,970
however you know they all have their own

1421
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:10,099
religions that clearly cannot all be

1422
00:58:13,420 --> 00:58:11,570
correct because there are differences

1423
00:58:14,770 --> 00:58:13,430
sometimes major differences between all

1424
00:58:16,630 --> 00:58:14,780
of them yeah they'll all say there is

1425
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:16,640
he's right and it's kind of like that

1426
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:19,450
that you're investigating from the 80

1427
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:21,890
hypothesis well that's a very stupid

1428
00:58:27,490 --> 00:58:25,370
to do because you know it's not the only

1429
00:58:29,740 --> 00:58:27,500
one so if you're going to investigate

1430
00:58:32,470 --> 00:58:29,750
the et angle at least give equal space

1431
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:32,480
to the other scenarios and just see that

1432
00:58:38,380 --> 00:58:35,330
validity you know does the sort of the

1433
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:38,390
the wormhole window area have validity

1434
00:58:43,990 --> 00:58:42,050
you know does the time-travel theory

1435
00:58:46,060 --> 00:58:44,000
have validity does the paranormal or a

1436
00:58:48,940 --> 00:58:46,070
cult angle have believe it in if they do

1437
00:58:49,930 --> 00:58:48,950
if they don't fine but do but come to

1438
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:49,940
that conclusion because you've

1439
00:58:56,020 --> 00:58:51,890
researched it not just because you want

1440
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:56,030
to believe it's 8080 dahm dahm yeah

1441
00:59:00,160 --> 00:58:57,890
which he would number eight never

1442
00:59:02,020 --> 00:59:00,170
turning off the AMA ufologists which

1443
00:59:06,940 --> 00:59:02,030
just I mean I have to turn off the

1444
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:06,950
switch yeah it's like the I don't really

1445
00:59:09,820 --> 00:59:08,330
understand this you know those sort of

1446
00:59:11,470 --> 00:59:09,830
obscene I don't think this happens a lot

1447
00:59:13,750 --> 00:59:11,480
but I think he does happen and sometimes

1448
00:59:16,900 --> 00:59:13,760
it prominently happens where you have

1449
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:16,910
people who just cannot turn off from the

1450
00:59:21,370 --> 00:59:19,130
subject and have a normal life away from

1451
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:21,380
it you know and do normal stuff you know

1452
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:23,330
it's like people say we did you watch

1453
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:24,530
this show last night did you watch that

1454
00:59:29,350 --> 00:59:26,690
well no I was watching American Idol you

1455
00:59:30,940 --> 00:59:29,360
know oh why are we watching that when

1456
00:59:33,940 --> 00:59:30,950
there was a UFO show on because a like

1457
00:59:35,950 --> 00:59:33,950
American Idol you know you know there's

1458
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:35,960
nothing wrong with having a hobby and an

1459
00:59:40,780 --> 00:59:38,690
interest but if you cross the line to

1460
00:59:43,210 --> 00:59:40,790
where it impacts on your personal life

1461
00:59:45,790 --> 00:59:43,220
to such an extent that you spew put off

1462
00:59:48,250 --> 00:59:45,800
there's normal stuff in life the regular

1463
00:59:51,820 --> 00:59:48,260
stuff it you know in that makes a person

1464
00:59:53,350 --> 00:59:51,830
healthy and vital and activity etc then

1465
00:59:56,350 --> 00:59:53,360
you have crossed the line you know and

1466
00:59:59,260 --> 00:59:56,360
and and paranormal stuff for whatever

1467
01:00:00,370 --> 00:59:59,270
reason that does happen yeah I'm not as

1468
01:00:03,250 --> 01:00:00,380
I said don't get me wrong I'm not saying

1469
01:00:04,750 --> 01:00:03,260
it happens to ninety or fifty percent of

1470
01:00:06,610 --> 01:00:04,760
the population that are involved in

1471
01:00:08,740 --> 01:00:06,620
these fields but he does happen to a

1472
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:08,750
significant percentage you know that

1473
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:11,210
people just get caught up and he takes

1474
01:00:15,730 --> 01:00:13,130
over their lives which you know he's

1475
01:00:17,860 --> 01:00:15,740
sort of sad and tragic as well well all

1476
01:00:19,420 --> 01:00:17,870
you can think of is UFOs I try to be

1477
01:00:21,220 --> 01:00:19,430
interested in other things I also have a

1478
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:21,230
technology radio show the tech night our

1479
01:00:26,470 --> 01:00:24,290
live I'm not all UFO folks maybe one

1480
01:00:29,260 --> 01:00:26,480
third UFO because I have the tech blog

1481
01:00:32,260 --> 01:00:29,270
tech night out also bigfoot number nine

1482
01:00:34,150 --> 01:00:32,270
number nine nine with a bullet yeah well

1483
01:00:34,810 --> 01:00:34,160
this is you know where you sort of have

1484
01:00:36,890 --> 01:00:34,820
this sort of

1485
01:00:39,980 --> 01:00:36,900
cross-pollination if you're light where

1486
01:00:41,450 --> 01:00:39,990
you know you can sort of take the big

1487
01:00:43,820 --> 01:00:41,460
sort of hairy guy yet the mix and

1488
01:00:45,530 --> 01:00:43,830
replace it with ghosts or paranormal the

1489
01:00:47,660 --> 01:00:45,540
occult or whatever it's basically where

1490
01:00:49,609 --> 01:00:47,670
with respect to UFOs you have sort of

1491
01:00:52,130 --> 01:00:49,619
this cross-pollination with other

1492
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:52,140
phenomena that you know me the parties

1493
01:00:56,570 --> 01:00:55,170
research or enjoys I mean a classic

1494
01:00:59,300 --> 01:00:56,580
example you know Aleister Crowley

1495
01:01:01,160 --> 01:00:59,310
conjuring up this sort of creature known

1496
01:01:03,500 --> 01:01:01,170
as lamb which all part from the eyes

1497
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:03,510
looks almost identical to the thing I'm

1498
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:05,730
front of whitley shavers communion you

1499
01:01:09,859 --> 01:01:07,410
know but Crowley didn't summon this up

1500
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:09,869
or didn't encounter it you know with a

1501
01:01:14,030 --> 01:01:12,090
visitation nuts-and-bolts spacecraft in

1502
01:01:16,340 --> 01:01:14,040
the woods you know he got in an altered

1503
01:01:18,710 --> 01:01:16,350
state and basically invoked the thing

1504
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:18,720
you know and people in ufology don't

1505
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:20,850
like the fact that well this sort of

1506
01:01:25,940 --> 01:01:23,520
goes down so-called hocus pocus packs

1507
01:01:28,220 --> 01:01:25,950
you know and now we need nuts and bolts

1508
01:01:30,950 --> 01:01:28,230
this is just you're gonna sort of blow

1509
01:01:33,170 --> 01:01:30,960
our credibility so it's basically that

1510
01:01:36,170 --> 01:01:33,180
angler where you have two paths crossing

1511
01:01:38,330 --> 01:01:36,180
where neither research parties want it

1512
01:01:40,700 --> 01:01:38,340
across it it's not politically correct

1513
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:40,710
again to talk about Bigfoot in relation

1514
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:43,680
to UFOs and no it's like people who are

1515
01:01:47,930 --> 01:01:45,930
interested in Bigfoot shouldn't talk to

1516
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:47,940
UFO researchers but there's also this

1517
01:01:52,070 --> 01:01:49,770
line of demarcation between people

1518
01:01:54,380 --> 01:01:52,080
involved in science fiction people who

1519
01:01:56,930 --> 01:01:54,390
are science fiction fans they have never

1520
01:01:58,970 --> 01:01:56,940
gotten along with the UFO crowd this is

1521
01:02:01,340 --> 01:01:58,980
traditional this is I've seen this over

1522
01:02:02,570 --> 01:02:01,350
the years and maybe because the least

1523
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:02,580
with science fiction you say look it's

1524
01:02:07,190 --> 01:02:05,130
just a story it's fantasy and now you're

1525
01:02:09,950 --> 01:02:07,200
coming and telling me that et or

1526
01:02:13,670 --> 01:02:09,960
whatever is real who knows number ten

1527
01:02:16,550 --> 01:02:13,680
you Falah djegal worries worry me this

1528
01:02:18,260 --> 01:02:16,560
what's it about you know I forget I

1529
01:02:21,020 --> 01:02:18,270
forget which one that was you for

1530
01:02:22,790 --> 01:02:21,030
logical worries for all their desires to

1531
01:02:26,090 --> 01:02:22,800
spread the youth illogical worded

1532
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:26,100
conferences on TV on radio and on the

1533
01:02:32,210 --> 01:02:28,530
net I have seen more than a few

1534
01:02:33,710 --> 01:02:32,220
ufologist squirm and go bright red when

1535
01:02:36,530 --> 01:02:33,720
they are forced to answer to people

1536
01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:36,540
outside of their field the question of

1537
01:02:44,710 --> 01:02:41,760
so what do you do got it no I think it's

1538
01:02:51,049 --> 01:02:47,630
my word to it yeah I've never understood

1539
01:02:52,940 --> 01:02:51,059
this angle of people being passionate

1540
01:02:55,279 --> 01:02:52,950
about UFOs and standing up on the

1541
01:02:57,410 --> 01:02:55,289
lecture circuit and you know having

1542
01:02:59,089 --> 01:02:57,420
their say etcetera and you know in a

1543
01:03:00,769 --> 01:02:59,099
commanding way telling the audience what

1544
01:03:02,450 --> 01:03:00,779
they believe is going on but then we

1545
01:03:04,039 --> 01:03:02,460
there've oh I could party to friend's

1546
01:03:06,289 --> 01:03:04,049
house or you know they just get chatting

1547
01:03:08,359 --> 01:03:06,299
with someone I've seen people squirm and

1548
01:03:09,980 --> 01:03:08,369
just you know not want to talk about it

1549
01:03:11,390 --> 01:03:09,990
it's like well you know I have a bit of

1550
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:11,400
strength of character you know don't

1551
01:03:15,559 --> 01:03:13,170
don't be just sort of a you know a total

1552
01:03:17,059 --> 01:03:15,569
war sort of you don't even have the

1553
01:03:19,579 --> 01:03:17,069
strength of character to support your

1554
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:19,589
own beliefs in something that you've you

1555
01:03:23,239 --> 01:03:21,450
know spend a great deal time investigate

1556
01:03:25,549 --> 01:03:23,249
and you know I'll tell you like we gotta

1557
01:03:27,829 --> 01:03:25,559
move this break we have Nick Redfern

1558
01:03:29,599 --> 01:03:27,839
been talking a lot of fascinating stuff

1559
01:03:31,220 --> 01:03:29,609
here including the things you follow

1560
01:03:34,039 --> 01:03:31,230
just shouldn't do you follow just do not

1561
01:03:36,259 --> 01:03:34,049
do these things a 10 best or worse list

1562
01:03:39,650 --> 01:03:36,269
I'm Jean Steinberg he's Nick Redfern

1563
01:03:47,219 --> 01:03:39,660
you're in the para cast

1564
01:03:49,690 --> 01:03:47,229
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1565
01:03:53,559 --> 01:03:49,700
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1566
01:03:55,930 --> 01:03:53,569
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1567
01:03:59,859 --> 01:03:55,940
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1568
01:04:02,170 --> 01:03:59,869
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1569
01:04:05,049 --> 01:04:02,180
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1570
01:04:07,839 --> 01:04:05,059
seen on TV calm because this is the

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1572
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01:04:16,599 --> 01:04:13,609
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01:04:18,339 --> 01:04:16,609
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1575
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1576
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1579
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1580
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1581
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1582
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1583
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1585
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1586
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1587
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1588
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1589
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1590
01:05:12,279 --> 01:05:10,309
have you ever wondered why banks stock

1591
01:05:15,339 --> 01:05:12,289
brokers investment advisors won't talk

1592
01:05:16,989 --> 01:05:15,349
about gold IRAs wait a sec gold and

1593
01:05:18,549 --> 01:05:16,999
silver is going up while Congress is

1594
01:05:20,229 --> 01:05:18,559
trying to settle on the next debt

1595
01:05:23,229 --> 01:05:20,239
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1596
01:05:25,299 --> 01:05:23,239
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1597
01:05:28,059 --> 01:05:25,309
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1598
01:05:30,339 --> 01:05:28,069
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1599
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:30,349
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1600
01:05:36,279 --> 01:05:32,450
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01:05:48,499 --> 01:05:43,640
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that's news at the para caste calm and

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don't forget to visit our famous para

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podcast.com oh ho ho and a bottle of

1661
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:13,619
forget it we have Nick Redfern joining

1662
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:15,930
us as guests and guest co-host Chris

1663
01:08:21,380 --> 01:08:18,000
O'Brien is on assignment this week and

1664
01:08:24,050 --> 01:08:21,390
we are going to talk about one or two

1665
01:08:25,940 --> 01:08:24,060
more major topics before we go on and

1666
01:08:28,039 --> 01:08:25,950
this is an article you did for

1667
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:28,049
mysterious universe again called the

1668
01:08:33,769 --> 01:08:30,330
future of ufology we have some questions

1669
01:08:35,809 --> 01:08:33,779
about that from our audience but I want

1670
01:08:37,370 --> 01:08:35,819
to get into a description of what we're

1671
01:08:39,499 --> 01:08:37,380
talking about here the future of ufology

1672
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:39,509
and I wonder about this because a lot of

1673
01:08:43,610 --> 01:08:41,850
us got started early on I won't say how

1674
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:43,620
many years ago but I do remember major

1675
01:08:47,390 --> 01:08:45,839
Donald Kehoe is a physical living being

1676
01:08:49,519 --> 01:08:47,400
because I met him several times

1677
01:08:51,559 --> 01:08:49,529
I do remember Ray Palmer I never met

1678
01:08:54,860 --> 01:08:51,569
Kenneth Arnold I do remember Richard

1679
01:08:56,690 --> 01:08:54,870
shaver I met him physically as I did Jim

1680
01:08:58,730 --> 01:08:56,700
Mosley but Jim Mosley's still here

1681
01:09:01,280 --> 01:08:58,740
so what's the future if you follow it

1682
01:09:03,079 --> 01:09:01,290
well won't have a future in a hundred

1683
01:09:04,900 --> 01:09:03,089
years now I think you know providing

1684
01:09:07,370 --> 01:09:04,910
we're around as a human race and the

1685
01:09:09,079 --> 01:09:07,380
civilization I think the will be and the

1686
01:09:11,450 --> 01:09:09,089
reason why I think the world is because

1687
01:09:13,340 --> 01:09:11,460
if you look back at any history that's

1688
01:09:15,590 --> 01:09:13,350
developed within human coleslaw or

1689
01:09:17,480 --> 01:09:15,600
traditions it still gets written about

1690
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:17,490
talked about hundreds of years later

1691
01:09:21,230 --> 01:09:19,170
like fairies in the Middle Ages in

1692
01:09:22,370 --> 01:09:21,240
England you know 600 year old stories

1693
01:09:24,170 --> 01:09:22,380
what people still write books about

1694
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:24,180
fairies you know people still write

1695
01:09:29,180 --> 01:09:26,730
books about Victorian table wrappings

1696
01:09:31,789 --> 01:09:29,190
and you know seances people still

1697
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:31,799
writing about the 1897 airships care

1698
01:09:37,849 --> 01:09:35,370
that's 115 years ago Roswell is nearly

1699
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:37,859
70 years ago there's no reason I think

1700
01:09:41,630 --> 01:09:39,930
why you followed you won't be around in

1701
01:09:44,090 --> 01:09:41,640
another hundred years because you know

1702
01:09:45,380 --> 01:09:44,100
and it's sort of no time at all when you

1703
01:09:46,579 --> 01:09:45,390
look at the way that some of these

1704
01:09:49,519 --> 01:09:46,589
ancient mysteries are still being

1705
01:09:51,499 --> 01:09:49,529
written about today I guess my view is

1706
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:51,509
that unless there's a major breakthrough

1707
01:09:54,890 --> 01:09:53,130
which I don't believe there will be and

1708
01:09:56,990 --> 01:09:54,900
because there's something about 40 and

1709
01:09:58,610 --> 01:09:57,000
phenomena that always keeps one step

1710
01:10:00,980 --> 01:09:58,620
ahead of us and prevents us and from

1711
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:00,990
actually getting to that truth it kind

1712
01:10:05,420 --> 01:10:02,730
of keeps us gangrene on a string so

1713
01:10:07,970 --> 01:10:05,430
unless something major changes I think

1714
01:10:09,410 --> 01:10:07,980
it'll be pretty much like it is today

1715
01:10:11,630 --> 01:10:09,420
you know in the same way people are

1716
01:10:14,450 --> 01:10:11,640
asking questions you know if they high

1717
01:10:16,940 --> 01:10:14,460
to the airship scare in 1897 did an

1718
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:16,950
airship really crash at all or a Texas

1719
01:10:19,910 --> 01:10:18,690
and he's the body buried in the cemetery

1720
01:10:21,140 --> 01:10:19,920
you know that's hundred and fifteen

1721
01:10:23,180 --> 01:10:21,150
years ago and people are still asking

1722
01:10:25,580 --> 01:10:23,190
that I think hundred years from now

1723
01:10:27,140 --> 01:10:25,590
people still be asking how many bodies

1724
01:10:29,090 --> 01:10:27,150
were found at Roswell well the other

1725
01:10:30,500 --> 01:10:29,100
question would be what form will the UFO

1726
01:10:32,870 --> 01:10:30,510
mystery take a hundred years from now

1727
01:10:34,790 --> 01:10:32,880
because UFOs always seem to reflect the

1728
01:10:38,050 --> 01:10:34,800
times well you can look at it two ways

1729
01:10:40,150 --> 01:10:38,060
it depends on the strength of the eighty

1730
01:10:42,710 --> 01:10:40,160
hypothesis if that he sort of

1731
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:42,720
continually endorsed and embraced on a

1732
01:10:47,570 --> 01:10:45,570
massive scale nothing might change you

1733
01:10:49,910 --> 01:10:47,580
know if sort of paradigm shift and

1734
01:10:52,580 --> 01:10:49,920
people come round more to the idea of

1735
01:10:54,830 --> 01:10:52,590
you know how things like DMT for example

1736
01:10:56,150 --> 01:10:54,840
you know a defensively altered state the

1737
01:10:58,130 --> 01:10:56,160
researcher people like Rick Strassman

1738
01:10:59,660 --> 01:10:58,140
has shown that this can sort of some

1739
01:11:02,240 --> 01:10:59,670
people might say well it sort of creates

1740
01:11:04,430 --> 01:11:02,250
an abduction story or not unlike a

1741
01:11:06,110 --> 01:11:04,440
communion with being some another realm

1742
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:06,120
you could argue just as well that

1743
01:11:09,890 --> 01:11:07,890
actually opens a portal or a doorway to

1744
01:11:12,229 --> 01:11:09,900
another realm you don't see in a normal

1745
01:11:14,150 --> 01:11:12,239
state of mind which is what I believe if

1746
01:11:16,190 --> 01:11:14,160
that theory those kind of theories get

1747
01:11:18,530 --> 01:11:16,200
endorsed more we might see the

1748
01:11:20,270 --> 01:11:18,540
development of a phenomenon that you

1749
01:11:22,790 --> 01:11:20,280
know goes down that path rather than the

1750
01:11:24,530 --> 01:11:22,800
nuts and bolts alien angles it may

1751
01:11:27,590 --> 01:11:24,540
change it may not it all depends I think

1752
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:27,600
on how the phenomenon is perceived well

1753
01:11:31,550 --> 01:11:29,010
the other question would be then if

1754
01:11:34,340 --> 01:11:31,560
there really is contact with alien

1755
01:11:36,590 --> 01:11:34,350
beings we make the true first contact

1756
01:11:38,300 --> 01:11:36,600
the verifiable will that have anything

1757
01:11:40,910 --> 01:11:38,310
to do with the UFO mystery wouldn't that

1758
01:11:44,180 --> 01:11:40,920
be confusing imagine this now well that

1759
01:11:46,010 --> 01:11:44,190
we are told that et is really here et

1760
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:46,020
has arrived maybe they're the Vulcans

1761
01:11:51,890 --> 01:11:48,930
whatever first contact okay and we see

1762
01:11:53,750 --> 01:11:51,900
et and we interact with them and then we

1763
01:11:55,070 --> 01:11:53,760
learn at the entire UFO mystery had

1764
01:11:56,630 --> 01:11:55,080
nothing to do with that this is their

1765
01:11:58,910 --> 01:11:56,640
first visit here wouldn't that be

1766
01:12:01,280 --> 01:11:58,920
strange well yeah but it would be also

1767
01:12:04,220 --> 01:12:01,290
fascinating from the perspective of

1768
01:12:06,229 --> 01:12:04,230
looking at how and why belief systems

1769
01:12:07,850 --> 01:12:06,239
develop and how why they can become so

1770
01:12:09,530 --> 01:12:07,860
strong that people actually believe

1771
01:12:11,900 --> 01:12:09,540
they're seeing something but isn't there

1772
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:11,910
you know or are they actually creating

1773
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:13,290
something in the mind with such a power

1774
01:12:17,900 --> 01:12:15,570
that it externally projects it you know

1775
01:12:19,940 --> 01:12:17,910
like a Tulpa like a thought-form type

1776
01:12:21,290 --> 01:12:19,950
situation you know so even if that

1777
01:12:21,890 --> 01:12:21,300
scenario did happen which is an

1778
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:21,900
intriguing

1779
01:12:26,900 --> 01:12:24,570
on there would still be major work to be

1780
01:12:29,210 --> 01:12:26,910
done to try and determine how and why

1781
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:29,220
and you know in the what circumstances

1782
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:31,170
you know sort of belief it's actually

1783
01:12:34,550 --> 01:12:32,970
kind of developed you know you know I

1784
01:12:34,970 --> 01:12:34,560
have another crazy idea of just occurred

1785
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:34,980
to me

1786
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:37,370
what if UFO mystery as we perceive it

1787
01:12:43,190 --> 01:12:40,770
consists of illusions generated the real

1788
01:12:46,100 --> 01:12:43,200
ETS are doing it they're generating

1789
01:12:48,050 --> 01:12:46,110
these illusions to prepare us for their

1790
01:12:50,090 --> 01:12:48,060
future presence well I mean that's

1791
01:12:51,890 --> 01:12:50,100
entirely possible but I mean because

1792
01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:51,900
like you point out every generation

1793
01:12:56,210 --> 01:12:54,000
that's talked about UFOs has done so

1794
01:12:58,280 --> 01:12:56,220
from the perspective of seeing things

1795
01:13:00,830 --> 01:12:58,290
that are relevant to their era you know

1796
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:00,840
19th 20th century with airships where

1797
01:13:05,510 --> 01:13:03,090
shoes have been flown in the forties it

1798
01:13:08,180 --> 01:13:05,520
was flying discs and the fifties classic

1799
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:08,190
flying saucers and space brothers then

1800
01:13:11,420 --> 01:13:10,170
you had the almost like a crossover

1801
01:13:14,570 --> 01:13:11,430
point where you had like the villas-boas

1802
01:13:17,750 --> 01:13:14,580
and the hills abduction you know where

1803
01:13:19,850 --> 01:13:17,760
there was sort of halfway between human

1804
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:19,860
looking and the greys and then from the

1805
01:13:23,810 --> 01:13:21,810
70s onwards the greys then you had the

1806
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:23,820
praying mantis and the reptilians and

1807
01:13:27,650 --> 01:13:25,530
the flying saucers went away and it's

1808
01:13:30,440 --> 01:13:27,660
flying triangles the landings and the

1809
01:13:31,850 --> 01:13:30,450
contact cases an occupant case is

1810
01:13:33,770 --> 01:13:31,860
described that you know by the Lorenz

1811
01:13:36,110 --> 01:13:33,780
ins and appro all those sorts of people

1812
01:13:38,510 --> 01:13:36,120
what happened to them aliens taking soil

1813
01:13:40,490 --> 01:13:38,520
samples vehicle interference all this

1814
01:13:43,100 --> 01:13:40,500
been away but many of these cases kind

1815
01:13:45,890 --> 01:13:43,110
of smack of staged events specifically

1816
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:45,900
designed for the witness to see and I

1817
01:13:48,860 --> 01:13:47,250
actually think that is what happened you

1818
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:48,870
know I don't think it's a random chance

1819
01:13:53,180 --> 01:13:51,330
that people kept running across aliens

1820
01:13:55,250 --> 01:13:53,190
taking soil samples they were meant to

1821
01:13:57,140 --> 01:13:55,260
see them to reinforce a particular

1822
01:13:59,380 --> 01:13:57,150
imagery so I think you know there has

1823
01:14:01,520 --> 01:13:59,390
been manipulation of the mindset to

1824
01:14:03,380 --> 01:14:01,530
climate eyes us to the presence of

1825
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:03,390
something at least so these have answers

1826
01:14:08,270 --> 01:14:06,090
staged for their benefit not so much for

1827
01:14:10,700 --> 01:14:08,280
ours I have an interesting question from

1828
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:10,710
ufology but where that's is his address

1829
01:14:16,220 --> 01:14:14,370
and his member name over at our power

1830
01:14:18,020 --> 01:14:16,230
cast forms of formed out the power cast

1831
01:14:19,430 --> 01:14:18,030
come and let me start with these

1832
01:14:21,710 --> 01:14:19,440
questions this is an interesting one

1833
01:14:23,630 --> 01:14:21,720
that we can go into for a while he says

1834
01:14:26,150 --> 01:14:23,640
you suggest that if you follow chief

1835
01:14:28,580 --> 01:14:26,160
ales to cease the growing challenge it

1836
01:14:31,490 --> 01:14:28,590
already faces that it won't die or fade

1837
01:14:34,130 --> 01:14:31,500
away but will still be here and here

1838
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:34,140
popping up now and again to quote not

1839
01:14:37,970 --> 01:14:35,370
unlike an ass

1840
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:37,980
the itchy rash picked up in the private

1841
01:14:42,170 --> 01:14:39,690
room at the local strip joint on a

1842
01:14:44,300 --> 01:14:42,180
Friday night that never quite goes away

1843
01:14:46,790 --> 01:14:44,310
my question is it sounds like you might

1844
01:14:50,180 --> 01:14:46,800
have had some personal experience in

1845
01:14:53,030 --> 01:14:50,190
this regard and if you can tell us which

1846
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:53,040
clubs people should avoid or if just

1847
01:14:55,780 --> 01:14:54,570
avoiding them on Fridays would be

1848
01:15:00,590 --> 01:14:55,790
sufficient

1849
01:15:02,030 --> 01:15:00,600
well no no personal knowledge at all of

1850
01:15:06,260 --> 01:15:02,040
anything like that that was purely meant

1851
01:15:08,110 --> 01:15:06,270
as a joke and everybody I would help

1852
01:15:13,310 --> 01:15:08,120
could understand it was meant as a joke

1853
01:15:16,940 --> 01:15:13,320
so let's assume this way that we wonder

1854
01:15:20,690 --> 01:15:16,950
if Nick Redfern goes out at night is one

1855
01:15:23,480 --> 01:15:20,700
of those nighttime people who has fun

1856
01:15:24,700 --> 01:15:23,490
and frolic or frolic and fun depending

1857
01:15:27,140 --> 01:15:24,710
on your point of view what do you think

1858
01:15:28,820 --> 01:15:27,150
well yeah I have a good social life but

1859
01:15:30,770 --> 01:15:28,830
I mean I'm I'm not gonna be now I want

1860
01:15:35,990 --> 01:15:30,780
somebody some woman to dance for I'm not

1861
01:15:39,050 --> 01:15:36,000
gonna pay money for it you know in some

1862
01:15:41,150 --> 01:15:39,060
nasty disease so but I think the

1863
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:41,160
analogies you know worth mentioning the

1864
01:15:46,250 --> 01:15:43,650
fact that you know it's kind of ufology

1865
01:15:48,950 --> 01:15:46,260
is just not gonna go away regardless and

1866
01:15:51,140 --> 01:15:48,960
you know there are unsaved unsavory and

1867
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:51,150
annoying aspects to it just like a real

1868
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:54,690
nasty rash well that's how it goes

1869
01:15:58,130 --> 01:15:56,250
that's how it goes you have to wonder

1870
01:16:00,470 --> 01:15:58,140
about that we're talking about an

1871
01:16:02,540 --> 01:16:00,480
article that Nick Redfern wrote called

1872
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:02,550
the future of ufology for mysterious

1873
01:16:06,860 --> 01:16:03,930
universe magazine

1874
01:16:08,450 --> 01:16:06,870
now our co-host Chris O'Brien is on

1875
01:16:10,100 --> 01:16:08,460
assignment he's preparing for that great

1876
01:16:12,110 --> 01:16:10,110
big lecture in Northern California it's

1877
01:16:15,290 --> 01:16:12,120
happening now so it's too late to send

1878
01:16:17,930 --> 01:16:15,300
you there but therefore I ask Nick

1879
01:16:21,380 --> 01:16:17,940
Redfern to serve a double duty today not

1880
01:16:24,860 --> 01:16:21,390
just one job two jobs guest co-host and

1881
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:24,870
guest so there's a duality here he has

1882
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:26,730
to become two people he has to pretend

1883
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:28,530
to be schizophrenic now I'm joking I'm

1884
01:16:35,860 --> 01:16:31,290
Jean Steinberg he's Nick Redfern you're

1885
01:16:39,899 --> 01:16:37,680
[Music]

1886
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1912
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1914
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1925
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missed a payment on your mortgage if

1928
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you've been a victim of a predatory loan

1929
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1930
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if you've lost your job and you're

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worried about losing your home don't

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wait call us now and let us help you

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save your home you've worked hard to

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build a life with your family let us

1935
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help you keep your home call now before

1936
01:18:42,729 --> 01:18:41,030
it's too late

1937
01:18:44,350 --> 01:18:42,739
one eight hundred five nine seven eight

1938
01:18:46,180 --> 01:18:44,360
eight four three one eight hundred five

1939
01:18:46,610 --> 01:18:46,190
nine seven eight eight four three one

1940
01:18:50,780 --> 01:18:46,620
eight

1941
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:50,790
few of the IRS back taxes listen

1942
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:52,650
carefully sweeping changes to IRS

1943
01:18:56,150 --> 01:18:54,210
policies will help more people than ever

1944
01:18:58,760 --> 01:18:56,160
eliminate their tax debts once and for

1945
01:19:00,440 --> 01:18:58,770
all and now I can help you reduce or

1946
01:19:03,020 --> 01:19:00,450
eliminate your tax that's an end your

1947
01:19:04,580 --> 01:19:03,030
tax nightmare hi I'm Dan Kohler I've

1948
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:04,590
helped thousands of people reduce and

1949
01:19:07,610 --> 01:19:05,970
eliminate tax debts they couldn't pay

1950
01:19:09,530 --> 01:19:07,620
and after more than 30 years of

1951
01:19:10,940 --> 01:19:09,540
experience dealing with the IRS I can

1952
01:19:12,950 --> 01:19:10,950
tell you there's no such thing as a

1953
01:19:14,990 --> 01:19:12,960
hopeless tax case and with the IRS as

1954
01:19:16,730 --> 01:19:15,000
new policies it's easier than ever to

1955
01:19:18,770 --> 01:19:16,740
put your tax debt behind you once and

1956
01:19:21,020 --> 01:19:18,780
for all call now at eight hundred three

1957
01:19:23,060 --> 01:19:21,030
four six six eight to nine to learn how

1958
01:19:24,890 --> 01:19:23,070
I can help you you know your IRS debt

1959
01:19:27,530 --> 01:19:24,900
will not go away by itself but you don't

1960
01:19:29,900 --> 01:19:27,540
have to live in fear anymore call 803

1961
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:29,910
four six six eight two nine learn how I

1962
01:19:33,770 --> 01:19:31,650
can help you eliminate wage and Bank

1963
01:19:35,450 --> 01:19:33,780
levies release tax liens and negotiate a

1964
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:35,460
settlement with the IRS that will put

1965
01:19:41,510 --> 01:19:37,650
your tax nightmare behind you forever

1966
01:19:47,380 --> 01:19:41,520
call 834 no tax or go to tax help

1967
01:19:52,340 --> 01:19:50,240
the worst drought in 50 years continues

1968
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:52,350
and the first six months of 2012 marks

1969
01:19:56,630 --> 01:19:54,930
the hottest half year on record 78% of

1970
01:19:59,300 --> 01:19:56,640
the Midwest Corn Belt is in drought

1971
01:20:00,920 --> 01:19:59,310
conditions not only corn at soy alfalfa

1972
01:20:03,440 --> 01:20:00,930
fruits vegetables and wheat are all

1973
01:20:05,210 --> 01:20:03,450
impacted raising prices the cost to feed

1974
01:20:06,860 --> 01:20:05,220
livestock is forcing farmers and

1975
01:20:08,930 --> 01:20:06,870
ranchers out of business blowing up your

1976
01:20:11,210 --> 01:20:08,940
food prices the only strategy to counter

1977
01:20:12,830 --> 01:20:11,220
this is to freeze your food cost at

1978
01:20:15,050 --> 01:20:12,840
today's prices by getting your own

1979
01:20:16,850 --> 01:20:15,060
supply of foods for me foods direct now

1980
01:20:18,500 --> 01:20:16,860
as the price of raw ingredients

1981
01:20:20,210 --> 01:20:18,510
increases EFA's will have to raise

1982
01:20:22,430 --> 01:20:20,220
prices - now is the time to get your

1983
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:22,440
supply I recently increased my supply

1984
01:20:25,790 --> 01:20:24,210
for me foods direct as we've all known

1985
01:20:27,950 --> 01:20:25,800
this was coming you know about their

1986
01:20:30,020 --> 01:20:27,960
delicious long-term storable foods a

1987
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:30,030
fact is you can eat at any time to save

1988
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:32,010
money today and because it stores for 25

1989
01:20:35,270 --> 01:20:33,810
years they're locking in today's prices

1990
01:20:38,690 --> 01:20:35,280
and avoiding the rising food cost

1991
01:20:41,390 --> 01:20:38,700
don't wait call 800 409 5 6 3 3 or go to

1992
01:20:45,170 --> 01:20:41,400
eat foods - Rhett calm Ford / Alex all

1993
01:20:47,180 --> 01:20:45,180
800 or o95 633 re foods - Rhett calm 4 /

1994
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:47,190
Alex you can bet your life on e foods

1995
01:20:55,450 --> 01:20:53,050
this is Leslie Kane and I'm with the

1996
01:20:58,650 --> 01:20:55,460
Coalition for freedom of information and

1997
01:21:01,300 --> 01:20:58,660
you are listening to the podcast

1998
01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:01,310
he's Nick Redfern I'm gene Steinberg

1999
01:21:07,720 --> 01:21:04,489
Chris O'Brien is on assignment and we're

2000
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:07,730
exploring the multi interests the

2001
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:09,650
multiple interests of Nick Redfern we

2002
01:21:13,870 --> 01:21:11,810
start out with the possibilities of a

2003
01:21:16,870 --> 01:21:13,880
UFO crash at Aztec that he's looked into

2004
01:21:19,270 --> 01:21:16,880
extensively the possibilities of a crash

2005
01:21:21,189 --> 01:21:19,280
at Kingman Arizona that Harry Drew was

2006
01:21:23,620 --> 01:21:21,199
talking about last week now we're

2007
01:21:25,209 --> 01:21:23,630
talking about the future of ufology an

2008
01:21:26,500 --> 01:21:25,219
article he wrote from a serious universe

2009
01:21:30,189 --> 01:21:26,510
and we have some questions from the

2010
01:21:31,810 --> 01:21:30,199
audience one from s RL who's been a

2011
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:31,820
member of the para cast forum since

2012
01:21:38,410 --> 01:21:35,570
November of 2010 viewed from the

2013
01:21:40,689 --> 01:21:38,420
sociologist perspective do you feel at

2014
01:21:43,570 --> 01:21:40,699
this juncture in time what is commonly

2015
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:43,580
known as ufology is no more than one

2016
01:21:49,540 --> 01:21:46,250
belief system and which is attempting to

2017
01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:49,550
dominate that in Western culture what is

2018
01:21:53,950 --> 01:21:51,890
viewed as organized religion in other

2019
01:21:57,760 --> 01:21:53,960
words you feel that mainstream ufology

2020
01:22:00,910 --> 01:21:57,770
has thus become a religion in and of

2021
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:00,920
itself what do you think well I think it

2022
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:03,290
has but from the perspective that it's

2023
01:22:08,500 --> 01:22:05,810
definitively belief driven in one

2024
01:22:10,180 --> 01:22:08,510
particular scenario the a th so in that

2025
01:22:13,180 --> 01:22:10,190
sense it has become like a religion

2026
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:13,190
because you know religion itself

2027
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:15,530
basically is you know believing

2028
01:22:21,490 --> 01:22:19,730
something but all religions insist you

2029
01:22:23,470 --> 01:22:21,500
know that it's this or it's that and

2030
01:22:26,020 --> 01:22:23,480
they have their sort of specifically

2031
01:22:27,670 --> 01:22:26,030
delineated guidelines and for the most

2032
01:22:32,470 --> 01:22:27,680
part that's what you follow gee does you

2033
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:32,480
know ufology itself would not be you

2034
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:35,210
know appropriate to classify as like a

2035
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:37,610
religion or to compare it if it wasn't

2036
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:39,770
for the fact that you followed you as a

2037
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:41,930
movement he's so dominated by the a th

2038
01:22:46,420 --> 01:22:44,930
in other words it's become less about in

2039
01:22:48,340 --> 01:22:46,430
the same way that religion should be

2040
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:48,350
about exploring the mysteries or the

2041
01:22:53,140 --> 01:22:50,330
potential misuse of life after death

2042
01:22:55,150 --> 01:22:53,150
ufology should be about exploring the

2043
01:22:58,870 --> 01:22:55,160
mysteries of what the UFO phenomenon is

2044
01:23:01,770 --> 01:22:58,880
but it's become upholding the 88 in the

2045
01:23:03,660 --> 01:23:01,780
same way that christianity is upholding

2046
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:03,670
tradition into ISM is about upholding

2047
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:07,090
that tradition upholding the faith in

2048
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:10,449
the belief of ET yeah that's exactly

2049
01:23:15,330 --> 01:23:12,010
what it's become and so in that sense he

2050
01:23:18,089 --> 01:23:15,340
is for intents and purposes a religion

2051
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:18,099
yes now you'll have to outline the

2052
01:23:22,649 --> 01:23:20,530
background this question from srl what

2053
01:23:24,839 --> 01:23:22,659
do you suggest it would take for highly

2054
01:23:26,970 --> 01:23:24,849
credentialed researchers who have been

2055
01:23:29,580 --> 01:23:26,980
conducting their research underground to

2056
01:23:32,490 --> 01:23:29,590
resurface so I guess the first question

2057
01:23:34,350 --> 01:23:32,500
I have to ask Nick is what is he talking

2058
01:23:37,379 --> 01:23:34,360
about what highly credentialed

2059
01:23:39,810 --> 01:23:37,389
researchers are working underground I

2060
01:23:41,279 --> 01:23:39,820
have no idea I mean I I figured from

2061
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:41,289
when you just said the question to him

2062
01:23:45,779 --> 01:23:44,170
it was like a hypothetical question but

2063
01:23:47,399 --> 01:23:45,789
I mean so I can I mean I don't know

2064
01:23:49,589 --> 01:23:47,409
anything about anybody who's doing that

2065
01:23:52,470 --> 01:23:49,599
so I can only answer it hypothetically I

2066
01:23:54,299 --> 01:23:52,480
think the problem is that even though we

2067
01:23:57,810 --> 01:23:54,309
know there's a genuine UFO phenomenon

2068
01:24:00,899 --> 01:23:57,820
it's become so hard with ridicule and

2069
01:24:03,569 --> 01:24:00,909
you know jokes etc but it's a kiss of

2070
01:24:04,649 --> 01:24:03,579
death for anybody or not anybody but for

2071
01:24:07,859 --> 01:24:04,659
a lot of people in the scientific

2072
01:24:09,060 --> 01:24:07,869
community to get involved and embrace

2073
01:24:11,129 --> 01:24:09,070
the subject you know probably the

2074
01:24:13,049 --> 01:24:11,139
closest people get in a scientific

2075
01:24:15,510 --> 01:24:13,059
community is things like the search for

2076
01:24:18,839 --> 01:24:15,520
extraterrestrial intelligence SETI you

2077
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:18,849
know and theorizing on life on other

2078
01:24:22,890 --> 01:24:21,250
worlds but very few people in the

2079
01:24:26,129 --> 01:24:22,900
scientific community get involved you

2080
01:24:28,410 --> 01:24:26,139
know in terms of actual hey i'ma fall

2081
01:24:30,810 --> 01:24:28,420
and believe in alien reductions etc and

2082
01:24:33,299 --> 01:24:30,820
and I think all what he would take would

2083
01:24:36,500 --> 01:24:33,309
be a massive shift in the credibility

2084
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:36,510
factor which could be borne out by a

2085
01:24:41,819 --> 01:24:39,730
huge development you know legitimized

2086
01:24:44,370 --> 01:24:41,829
what we're doing in the eyes of

2087
01:24:46,049 --> 01:24:44,380
everybody else nevermind just us so I

2088
01:24:47,879 --> 01:24:46,059
think it would take something like that

2089
01:24:49,290 --> 01:24:47,889
otherwise people just aren't going to

2090
01:24:51,450 --> 01:24:49,300
come forward and you know risk their

2091
01:24:54,450 --> 01:24:51,460
reputations etc but you don't think

2092
01:24:56,069 --> 01:24:54,460
there are any numbers of real credential

2093
01:24:59,010 --> 01:24:56,079
scientists who are doing this stuff on

2094
01:25:01,290 --> 01:24:59,020
the Qt yeah I've never had anybody come

2095
01:25:02,790 --> 01:25:01,300
to me with you know endless streams of

2096
01:25:04,620 --> 01:25:02,800
letters after the name and say hey you

2097
01:25:06,660 --> 01:25:04,630
know I think this is going on but I can

2098
01:25:08,669 --> 01:25:06,670
never say so but I mean I wouldn't be at

2099
01:25:10,770 --> 01:25:08,679
all surprised if there aren't hundreds

2100
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:10,780
of people in the academic you know

2101
01:25:15,690 --> 01:25:12,730
communities or scientific communities

2102
01:25:17,220 --> 01:25:15,700
who have a passionate interest in UFOs

2103
01:25:18,810 --> 01:25:17,230
would never admit to it you know that

2104
01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:18,820
wouldn't surprise me at all

2105
01:25:23,340 --> 01:25:21,130
well we scientists like dr. J Allen

2106
01:25:25,410 --> 01:25:23,350
Hynek who didn't admit it but of course

2107
01:25:28,980 --> 01:25:25,420
he started out working for the US Air

2108
01:25:30,930 --> 01:25:28,990
Force as their I mean like high-neck and

2109
01:25:32,940 --> 01:25:30,940
Stan Friedman you know they've had the

2110
01:25:35,970 --> 01:25:32,950
prince presence and mine in the strength

2111
01:25:37,620 --> 01:25:35,980
of character to come forward and say hey

2112
01:25:39,780 --> 01:25:37,630
you know I'm a scientist but I believe

2113
01:25:41,700 --> 01:25:39,790
but unfortunately the majority of them

2114
01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:41,710
just don't do it they're not going to

2115
01:25:45,870 --> 01:25:43,210
get those lucrative contracts from the

2116
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:45,880
government okay what would you suggest

2117
01:25:52,440 --> 01:25:48,730
that this field needs in order to

2118
01:25:54,690 --> 01:25:52,450
interest young and bright minds I know

2119
01:25:56,640 --> 01:25:54,700
actually you know I I don't care if he

2120
01:25:58,980 --> 01:25:56,650
does or not to be honest you know it's

2121
01:26:00,510 --> 01:25:58,990
you know it doesn't bother me if you you

2122
01:26:02,670 --> 01:26:00,520
know I think you followed you'll have a

2123
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:02,680
future it doesn't bother me though if he

2124
01:26:05,670 --> 01:26:03,970
doesn't you know I'm not gonna lose any

2125
01:26:07,440 --> 01:26:05,680
sleep over it what are you saying when

2126
01:26:09,540 --> 01:26:07,450
you do your lectures and you travel

2127
01:26:12,930 --> 01:26:09,550
around you see young people there is

2128
01:26:14,700 --> 01:26:12,940
everybody over 50 no that's actually you

2129
01:26:16,830 --> 01:26:14,710
know I get this a lot where you see

2130
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:16,840
articles and you know people's are it's

2131
01:26:19,860 --> 01:26:18,250
you know all our colleges in the

2132
01:26:22,140 --> 01:26:19,870
audience where it's not you know you

2133
01:26:25,310 --> 01:26:22,150
find a lot of young people you know sort

2134
01:26:28,350 --> 01:26:25,320
of teens and twenties at lectures but

2135
01:26:31,980 --> 01:26:28,360
what I don't think is is happening as

2136
01:26:34,770 --> 01:26:31,990
much is as many of them are moving

2137
01:26:37,290 --> 01:26:34,780
inside like research and articles and

2138
01:26:39,660 --> 01:26:37,300
books etc you know and getting on the

2139
01:26:41,010 --> 01:26:39,670
lecture circuit themselves that's one of

2140
01:26:42,270 --> 01:26:41,020
the big differences I think you know

2141
01:26:45,390 --> 01:26:42,280
it's like a lot of people in ufology

2142
01:26:47,550 --> 01:26:45,400
today who've been here for 40 50 years

2143
01:26:49,460 --> 01:26:47,560
they got into this kids they did a lot

2144
01:26:51,690 --> 01:26:49,470
of on the road research traveling around

2145
01:26:53,730 --> 01:26:51,700
doing interviews for the local newspaper

2146
01:26:56,160 --> 01:26:53,740
and getting known as the local UFO guy

2147
01:26:57,900 --> 01:26:56,170
and getting stories coming to them then

2148
01:27:00,330 --> 01:26:57,910
doing a few articles books get another

2149
01:27:03,300 --> 01:27:00,340
lecture circuit traveling around I see

2150
01:27:05,580 --> 01:27:03,310
less of that I think in you know sort of

2151
01:27:06,780 --> 01:27:05,590
teenagers and 20s so they'll go to the

2152
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:06,790
lecture they're interested in what's

2153
01:27:10,530 --> 01:27:08,890
going on but that's the extent of their

2154
01:27:12,870 --> 01:27:10,540
interest they will never take it that

2155
01:27:14,580 --> 01:27:12,880
next step well I mean some do but no I

2156
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:14,590
think on the scale in years past but I

2157
01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:15,970
don't think that's necessarily got

2158
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:18,130
anything to do with UFOs but I think a

2159
01:27:22,350 --> 01:27:19,690
lot of that has just to do with changes

2160
01:27:25,290 --> 01:27:22,360
in culture and society in the same way

2161
01:27:27,180 --> 01:27:25,300
that you know somebody I know just say

2162
01:27:29,099 --> 01:27:27,190
up hypothetical X stamps you know a

2163
01:27:30,899 --> 01:27:29,109
stamp collector you

2164
01:27:33,149 --> 01:27:30,909
maybe 20 years ago they would have gone

2165
01:27:35,099 --> 01:27:33,159
to these stamp fairs you know where

2166
01:27:37,020 --> 01:27:35,109
people buy and bid for stamps or

2167
01:27:38,279 --> 01:27:37,030
whatever maybe today though they go on

2168
01:27:40,139 --> 01:27:38,289
the internet and big for them at a

2169
01:27:42,689 --> 01:27:40,149
website you know I think you know it's

2170
01:27:44,339 --> 01:27:42,699
kind of like that that sort of society

2171
01:27:47,219 --> 01:27:44,349
and technology has changed the way we

2172
01:27:48,899 --> 01:27:47,229
interact with each other and any people

2173
01:27:51,239 --> 01:27:48,909
can get it off the internet or watch a

2174
01:27:53,489 --> 01:27:51,249
lecture you know on YouTube after it

2175
01:27:55,649 --> 01:27:53,499
uploaded saves a lot of time I have to

2176
01:27:56,939 --> 01:27:55,659
sit down and write letters and send them

2177
01:27:59,759 --> 01:27:56,949
to the post office and that stuff

2178
01:28:02,549 --> 01:27:59,769
exactly okay what role would you

2179
01:28:06,689 --> 01:28:02,559
consider mainstream media plays in the

2180
01:28:09,750 --> 01:28:06,699
perpetuation of the ETH mythos I'm not

2181
01:28:13,109 --> 01:28:09,760
sure it does I think you know that yeah

2182
01:28:15,509 --> 01:28:13,119
I mean the media from our perspective a

2183
01:28:16,859 --> 01:28:15,519
you know the UFO community you know

2184
01:28:18,779 --> 01:28:16,869
there's no doubt but the subject gets

2185
01:28:20,759 --> 01:28:18,789
greater coverage massive coverage you

2186
01:28:23,250 --> 01:28:20,769
know compared to what he did 20 years

2187
01:28:25,290 --> 01:28:23,260
ago and certainly the laughter angle has

2188
01:28:27,270 --> 01:28:25,300
definitely decreased and I think one of

2189
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:27,280
the reasons is because you know in with

2190
01:28:32,339 --> 01:28:30,010
TV you know they recognize that there is

2191
01:28:34,020 --> 01:28:32,349
evidence of government investigations

2192
01:28:35,759 --> 01:28:34,030
and things like this and official files

2193
01:28:38,310 --> 01:28:35,769
so you know they they treat it more

2194
01:28:40,679 --> 01:28:38,320
seriously but the Smurfs aren't there in

2195
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:40,689
abundance anymore no but what I would

2196
01:28:46,290 --> 01:28:43,449
say is that the TV you know any TV show

2197
01:28:49,169 --> 01:28:46,300
for the most part focuses either on the

2198
01:28:50,669 --> 01:28:49,179
idea that it was a tea or as a mundane

2199
01:28:52,290 --> 01:28:50,679
explanation you know it's like most

2200
01:28:55,020 --> 01:28:52,300
Roswell documentary they're either going

2201
01:28:56,790 --> 01:28:55,030
to look at the idea was it a tea or was

2202
01:28:59,270 --> 01:28:56,800
it a mogul balloon you know they cannot

2203
01:29:03,209 --> 01:28:59,280
not look at esoteric angles or whatever

2204
01:29:05,699 --> 01:29:03,219
so in that sense the media is guilty of

2205
01:29:07,529 --> 01:29:05,709
helping perpetuate the ATH

2206
01:29:10,199 --> 01:29:07,539
but not I don't think from any sort of

2207
01:29:11,399 --> 01:29:10,209
sinister new world order perspective you

2208
01:29:14,129 --> 01:29:11,409
know that somebody's pulling the strings

2209
01:29:16,409 --> 01:29:14,139
it's just that it's a lot of you know a

2210
01:29:18,359 --> 01:29:16,419
lot of TV today ironically although

2211
01:29:21,869 --> 01:29:18,369
there's greater coverage it's just gum

2212
01:29:23,219 --> 01:29:21,879
down crap you know stuff like people

2213
01:29:24,689 --> 01:29:23,229
running around the woods saying what the

2214
01:29:27,270 --> 01:29:24,699
hell was that you know with nice coke

2215
01:29:28,790 --> 01:29:27,280
equipment that's what we get an

2216
01:29:31,079 --> 01:29:28,800
abundance of that we get far more

2217
01:29:33,869 --> 01:29:31,089
paranormal TV than in the past but it's

2218
01:29:36,419 --> 01:29:33,879
just it's not ironic ly investigative

2219
01:29:37,679 --> 01:29:36,429
work so you know a lot of the TV stuff

2220
01:29:40,049 --> 01:29:37,689
today said it's all aliens or whatever

2221
01:29:41,579 --> 01:29:40,059
it's just lazy journalism you know it's

2222
01:29:43,439 --> 01:29:41,589
not even journalism it's entertainment

2223
01:29:45,629 --> 01:29:43,449
I'm thinking of course of chasing UFOs I

2224
01:29:47,879 --> 01:29:45,639
think people like for example James Fox

2225
01:29:50,069 --> 01:29:47,889
are really dedicated and what they're

2226
01:29:52,619 --> 01:29:50,079
doing about UFO research but when they

2227
01:29:55,739 --> 01:29:52,629
get onto a show like that they're caught

2228
01:29:59,159 --> 01:29:55,749
in the hollywood syndrome of reality

2229
01:30:00,569 --> 01:29:59,169
shows and the reality show syndrome they

2230
01:30:02,909 --> 01:30:00,579
have to be like the movie

2231
01:30:04,909 --> 01:30:02,919
paranormal activity or Blair Witch

2232
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:04,919
Project where you have the nighttime

2233
01:30:10,649 --> 01:30:08,530
lost footage images and they look

2234
01:30:12,839 --> 01:30:10,659
terrible and they sound terrible and it

2235
01:30:19,949 --> 01:30:12,849
becomes unwatchable now I'm on my

2236
01:30:21,509 --> 01:30:19,959
soapbox there you go for our next

2237
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segment he agrees with everything I just

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said you know I'm just going to cherish

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the moment I'm Jean Steinberg he's Nick

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kicked in by an intruder with a single

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hi this is 10 Anderson have you ever

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wondered why banks stock workers

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investment advisors won't talk about

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gold IRAs they've been available since

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1986 yet the financial industry won't

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recognize the value of gold for your

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retirement goal has outperformed paper

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investments yet no word about IRAs if

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you would like to have gold for your

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retirement call 866 to 237 don't get

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left behind by rising inflation and low

2341
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hi this is Ted Phillips listening to the

2342
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Bearcat and it's as good as it gets

2343
01:35:07,270 --> 01:35:03,300
[Music]

2344
01:35:09,100 --> 01:35:07,280
Nick Redfern joins us as guest and guest

2345
01:35:12,220 --> 01:35:09,110
co-host crystal Bryan's on assignment

2346
01:35:14,439 --> 01:35:12,230
I'm Jean Steinberg exploring the future

2347
01:35:17,200 --> 01:35:14,449
of ufology we have lots of questions

2348
01:35:19,660 --> 01:35:17,210
let's go on questions from forum dr.

2349
01:35:22,930 --> 01:35:19,670
Peric ascom we have a place there called

2350
01:35:24,520 --> 01:35:22,940
the question Bank and when we know we're

2351
01:35:25,540 --> 01:35:24,530
gonna have a guess on the future it

2352
01:35:26,620 --> 01:35:25,550
sometimes we book them with the last

2353
01:35:29,200 --> 01:35:26,630
minute we can't do that

2354
01:35:31,390 --> 01:35:29,210
we know we have the guest we open it up

2355
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:31,400
for you to ask your questions so

2356
01:35:37,780 --> 01:35:34,489
Midwinter who has been with our forums

2357
01:35:39,370 --> 01:35:37,790
since 2009 a really simple question

2358
01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:39,380
probably too simple

2359
01:35:44,260 --> 01:35:41,570
wouldn't it benefit you follow G to

2360
01:35:47,020 --> 01:35:44,270
cease to exist and the study of all

2361
01:35:49,570 --> 01:35:47,030
things unidentified in paranormal to be

2362
01:35:53,260 --> 01:35:49,580
researched together how much is the

2363
01:35:55,270 --> 01:35:53,270
actual term ufology itself a barrier to

2364
01:35:57,040 --> 01:35:55,280
the study of unidentified flying objects

2365
01:35:58,810 --> 01:35:57,050
how about that question well that's

2366
01:36:00,520 --> 01:35:58,820
actually a very good question come on

2367
01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:00,530
the best I've been asked in a long time

2368
01:36:06,689 --> 01:36:03,170
because you know when you look at

2369
01:36:09,399 --> 01:36:06,699
ufology just the term ufology itself

2370
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:09,409
itself limiting because you know it

2371
01:36:14,379 --> 01:36:12,050
suggests even subconsciously that we

2372
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:14,389
just investigating objects in the sky

2373
01:36:19,419 --> 01:36:16,730
that maybe land occasionally they're

2374
01:36:21,189 --> 01:36:19,429
linked if abductions etc you know but

2375
01:36:24,580 --> 01:36:21,199
it's like what do you do when somebody's

2376
01:36:26,649 --> 01:36:24,590
seen a UFO at the same time and place as

2377
01:36:29,680 --> 01:36:26,659
beautiful what do you do when you know

2378
01:36:31,209 --> 01:36:29,690
somebody invokes a UFO encounter by

2379
01:36:34,060 --> 01:36:31,219
getting themselves into an altered state

2380
01:36:35,320 --> 01:36:34,070
you know whether through DMT or LSD you

2381
01:36:37,810 --> 01:36:35,330
know I mean speed a lot of people who've

2382
01:36:40,359 --> 01:36:37,820
had profound UFO experiences while on

2383
01:36:42,910 --> 01:36:40,369
LSD and you know I don't think they were

2384
01:36:45,280 --> 01:36:42,920
just hallucinating I think they opened a

2385
01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:45,290
like a portal or Grable to perceive

2386
01:36:48,939 --> 01:36:46,730
something that we don't perceive in a

2387
01:36:51,339 --> 01:36:48,949
normal state you follow it's not the

2388
01:36:54,790 --> 01:36:51,349
same thing as a person taking a couple

2389
01:36:58,709 --> 01:36:54,800
of martinis and just imagining no I

2390
01:37:02,080 --> 01:36:58,719
think the term ufology is self-limiting

2391
01:37:04,510 --> 01:37:02,090
because for so long it's it implied nuts

2392
01:37:06,430 --> 01:37:04,520
and bolts alien spacecraft and nothing

2393
01:37:09,400 --> 01:37:06,440
but it's where we take if we could look

2394
01:37:12,250 --> 01:37:09,410
outside that box and realize it's just a

2395
01:37:15,160 --> 01:37:12,260
part of a bigger thing then it wouldn't

2396
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:15,170
be self-limiting but you know if the UFO

2397
01:37:19,780 --> 01:37:16,970
community won't do that and all at once

2398
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:19,790
is Greg Bishop calls this UFO porno

2399
01:37:24,220 --> 01:37:22,010
which is a great term you know people

2400
01:37:26,680 --> 01:37:24,230
just want the exciting tales over and

2401
01:37:29,860 --> 01:37:26,690
over again and crashed UFOs at area 51

2402
01:37:31,870 --> 01:37:29,870
etc etc it's never gonna change you know

2403
01:37:34,180 --> 01:37:31,880
it's going to require a massive sort of

2404
01:37:36,460 --> 01:37:34,190
paradigm shift on what people view

2405
01:37:38,530 --> 01:37:36,470
ufology as versus what they did deal

2406
01:37:40,990 --> 01:37:38,540
with us one of those things that we hope

2407
01:37:42,940 --> 01:37:41,000
will become better but maybe not all

2408
01:37:45,490 --> 01:37:42,950
right that's a question for midwinter

2409
01:37:48,010 --> 01:37:45,500
does Nick see differences between

2410
01:37:50,590 --> 01:37:48,020
ufology in the US and other countries

2411
01:37:52,420 --> 01:37:50,600
such as the UK well certainly in South

2412
01:37:54,700 --> 01:37:52,430
America I see a lot of differences when

2413
01:37:57,820 --> 01:37:54,710
we have someone like aj gevaerd from

2414
01:38:01,240 --> 01:37:57,830
brazil I'm seeing maybe a more serious

2415
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:01,250
approach I don't think you know the

2416
01:38:05,380 --> 01:38:03,410
subjects any more serious in Britain

2417
01:38:07,450 --> 01:38:05,390
than it is to do something better - I

2418
01:38:09,040 --> 01:38:07,460
can sort of relate to the most you know

2419
01:38:10,810 --> 01:38:09,050
because I live in the u.s. I you know me

2420
01:38:12,910 --> 01:38:10,820
or 12 years but I'm originally from

2421
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:12,920
England I guess that the biggest

2422
01:38:20,650 --> 01:38:15,650
difference are I can definitely see is

2423
01:38:22,750 --> 01:38:20,660
that the ATH is less relied upon in the

2424
01:38:24,340 --> 01:38:22,760
UK you know people do sort a lot more

2425
01:38:27,130 --> 01:38:24,350
the other ideas that they're perceived

2426
01:38:29,650 --> 01:38:27,140
as being skeptics because you know they

2427
01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:29,660
look at things like plasmas even when

2428
01:38:32,770 --> 01:38:30,770
you know even when paid it's all that

2429
01:38:34,570 --> 01:38:32,780
plasmas that could have an effect on the

2430
01:38:36,360 --> 01:38:34,580
given line and provoke hallucination

2431
01:38:39,310 --> 01:38:36,370
they're still viewed as plateaus

2432
01:38:40,900 --> 01:38:39,320
debunkers or skeptics or whatever so

2433
01:38:43,630 --> 01:38:40,910
that's one of the things I get quite a

2434
01:38:45,730 --> 01:38:43,640
bit is that you know the angle of you

2435
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:45,740
know the difference of endorsing this

2436
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:48,170
theory or just you know being more open

2437
01:38:51,580 --> 01:38:49,730
to other theories but I think beyond

2438
01:38:53,470 --> 01:38:51,590
that there aren't that many differences

2439
01:38:56,620 --> 01:38:53,480
you know there's the lecture circuits

2440
01:38:57,940 --> 01:38:56,630
conferences books theories ideas you

2441
01:38:59,890 --> 01:38:57,950
know you said a lot of the same people

2442
01:39:01,510 --> 01:38:59,900
different lectures and conferences you

2443
01:39:04,330 --> 01:39:01,520
know so it's a good social scene as well

2444
01:39:06,490 --> 01:39:04,340
so other than other than fact that you

2445
01:39:08,410 --> 01:39:06,500
know the 88 isn't sort of all dominating

2446
01:39:11,140 --> 01:39:08,420
as such I don't think it's that much

2447
01:39:13,660 --> 01:39:11,150
different really it's just a lot you

2448
01:39:16,270 --> 01:39:13,670
tend to have for example I noticed in

2449
01:39:16,840 --> 01:39:16,280
South America it seemed the reports were

2450
01:39:20,140 --> 01:39:16,850
more to

2451
01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:20,150
dream and a sense of abductions and

2452
01:39:25,590 --> 01:39:22,130
contacts yeah I think you know a lot of

2453
01:39:28,030 --> 01:39:25,600
me certainly the South American stuff

2454
01:39:29,620 --> 01:39:28,040
you know he's very different to what you

2455
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:29,630
see elsewhere you know they still get a

2456
01:39:34,270 --> 01:39:31,850
lot of those sort of landing cases and

2457
01:39:36,090 --> 01:39:34,280
you know where there's sort of a but

2458
01:39:38,830 --> 01:39:36,100
often more sort of threatening and

2459
01:39:41,470 --> 01:39:38,840
disturbing to the witnesses you know in

2460
01:39:43,510 --> 01:39:41,480
the u.s. today I mean it's like how

2461
01:39:46,570 --> 01:39:43,520
often is UFO researchers do we really

2462
01:39:48,430 --> 01:39:46,580
get you know so those definitive the

2463
01:39:50,860 --> 01:39:48,440
more a type case you know the lawn is

2464
01:39:53,170 --> 01:39:50,870
amol or landing or you know things like

2465
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:53,180
that or the Kelly Hopkinsville you know

2466
01:39:58,330 --> 01:39:56,090
the goblins and the shootout or you know

2467
01:40:00,610 --> 01:39:58,340
the flyovers of DC we don't get those

2468
01:40:02,980 --> 01:40:00,620
anymore but certain parts of the world

2469
01:40:06,460 --> 01:40:02,990
do get strange cases so I think a lot of

2470
01:40:08,170 --> 01:40:06,470
it is cultural in some respects the

2471
01:40:10,330 --> 01:40:08,180
event is very interesting think about

2472
01:40:13,120 --> 01:40:10,340
the kind of cases we had back in the

2473
01:40:15,970 --> 01:40:13,130
1950s and someone suggested once that

2474
01:40:18,010 --> 01:40:15,980
maybe those UFOs those spacecraft

2475
01:40:19,900 --> 01:40:18,020
whatever assuming they were spacecraft

2476
01:40:21,450 --> 01:40:19,910
have left us and what we're seeing now

2477
01:40:23,710 --> 01:40:21,460
is something totally different

2478
01:40:26,020 --> 01:40:23,720
well that's what I mean I think the big

2479
01:40:28,060 --> 01:40:26,030
problem is there's always a tendency you

2480
01:40:30,070 --> 01:40:28,070
know that if people say strange things

2481
01:40:33,190 --> 01:40:30,080
in the sky but it's all part of one

2482
01:40:36,280 --> 01:40:33,200
great phenomenon there's no reason why

2483
01:40:38,230 --> 01:40:36,290
it should be I mean you know for UFOs in

2484
01:40:40,720 --> 01:40:38,240
general there's countless theories I

2485
01:40:43,950 --> 01:40:40,730
mean other things as the 80h then you've

2486
01:40:46,060 --> 01:40:43,960
got you know the secret aircraft angle

2487
01:40:48,280 --> 01:40:46,070
plasmas ball lightning

2488
01:40:49,690 --> 01:40:48,290
you know Trevor James constables you

2489
01:40:52,660 --> 01:40:49,700
know they sort of live in jellyfish in

2490
01:40:55,420 --> 01:40:52,670
the sky but a mistaken as flying saucers

2491
01:40:57,040 --> 01:40:55,430
and and even if they are genuine UFOs

2492
01:40:59,710 --> 01:40:57,050
you know you're quite right who's to say

2493
01:41:01,090 --> 01:40:59,720
it's the same ones coming over and over

2494
01:41:03,640 --> 01:41:01,100
again you know why shouldn't it be the

2495
01:41:06,040 --> 01:41:03,650
case that one lot goes away and another

2496
01:41:08,170 --> 01:41:06,050
one arrives I mean they thought we were

2497
01:41:10,180 --> 01:41:08,180
very boring and they said you know those

2498
01:41:13,000 --> 01:41:10,190
Earthlings they just can't get their

2499
01:41:15,670 --> 01:41:13,010
stuff together let's just go off to

2500
01:41:18,100 --> 01:41:15,680
another star system and then somebody

2501
01:41:20,470 --> 01:41:18,110
else discovers us well I mean you could

2502
01:41:23,230 --> 01:41:20,480
actually make quite some married out of

2503
01:41:24,460 --> 01:41:23,240
that because you know in the 50s you had

2504
01:41:27,040 --> 01:41:24,470
the sort of space brothers and the

2505
01:41:28,660 --> 01:41:27,050
flying saucers in the hills aliens you

2506
01:41:30,610 --> 01:41:28,670
know weren't really the greys of today

2507
01:41:33,070 --> 01:41:30,620
and the flying saucers have gone in

2508
01:41:34,720 --> 01:41:33,080
today it's flying triangles so at mrs.

2509
01:41:37,780 --> 01:41:34,730
Hall in the course are like sixty years

2510
01:41:39,730 --> 01:41:37,790
there's been massive change so you know

2511
01:41:42,060 --> 01:41:39,740
maybe there is an argument there is to

2512
01:41:44,170 --> 01:41:42,070
be made that it's not the same ones over

2513
01:41:47,380 --> 01:41:44,180
and over that it's something

2514
01:41:48,790 --> 01:41:47,390
ever-changing or just an endless list of

2515
01:41:50,620 --> 01:41:48,800
different entities that's why you know I

2516
01:41:52,570 --> 01:41:50,630
kind of go more with a sort of portal

2517
01:41:54,700 --> 01:41:52,580
window area angle rather than all these

2518
01:41:56,560 --> 01:41:54,710
different races if you like you know

2519
01:41:58,450 --> 01:41:56,570
zooming back from this star system or

2520
01:42:00,490 --> 01:41:58,460
that one you know I want to go into more

2521
01:42:02,740 --> 01:42:00,500
window areas in a moment because we have

2522
01:42:04,810 --> 01:42:02,750
a question about that in fact it's two

2523
01:42:05,500 --> 01:42:04,820
questions hence so let's just go to GOG

2524
01:42:09,010 --> 01:42:05,510
smacky

2525
01:42:11,710 --> 01:42:09,020
that's the guy's name and he's a very

2526
01:42:13,990 --> 01:42:11,720
prolific member of our forums in the

2527
01:42:16,570 --> 01:42:14,000
english-speaking world we mostly hear of

2528
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:16,580
paranormal events in these countries do

2529
01:42:22,150 --> 01:42:19,010
you think or know if paranormal events

2530
01:42:24,160 --> 01:42:22,160
are happening evenly across the world is

2531
01:42:26,620 --> 01:42:24,170
it just due to the reporting

2532
01:42:29,470 --> 01:42:26,630
infrastructure or culture that leads us

2533
01:42:33,070 --> 01:42:29,480
to not hearing much from some parts of

2534
01:42:34,900 --> 01:42:33,080
the world I think you know we do hear

2535
01:42:36,280 --> 01:42:34,910
from other parts of the world you know

2536
01:42:38,350 --> 01:42:36,290
there's no doubt about that it's to what

2537
01:42:39,790 --> 01:42:38,360
extent people bother to find out you

2538
01:42:41,740 --> 01:42:39,800
know you mentioned age age of art

2539
01:42:44,890 --> 01:42:41,750
earlier you know AJ's always putting

2540
01:42:47,440 --> 01:42:44,900
stories out you know it's to what extent

2541
01:42:49,990 --> 01:42:47,450
people type into Google you know South

2542
01:42:51,610 --> 01:42:50,000
America + UF o-- + latest sighting or

2543
01:42:53,080 --> 01:42:51,620
whatever you know if people aren't going

2544
01:42:55,630 --> 01:42:53,090
to look for the information and just

2545
01:42:57,220 --> 01:42:55,640
hope somebody's going to spoon-feed and

2546
01:42:58,660 --> 01:42:57,230
well you know you're not going to find

2547
01:43:00,760 --> 01:42:58,670
out what's going on in Russia or

2548
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:00,770
whatever all you're going to find out

2549
01:43:05,800 --> 01:43:03,050
what's you know going on at home so to

2550
01:43:08,530 --> 01:43:05,810
speak so you know there's there's no

2551
01:43:10,210 --> 01:43:08,540
doubt that sightings and encounters and

2552
01:43:13,780 --> 01:43:10,220
however you want to turn them a going on

2553
01:43:16,690 --> 01:43:13,790
all the time it's what you know to what

2554
01:43:20,620 --> 01:43:16,700
extent they're sort of highlighted in

2555
01:43:22,990 --> 01:43:20,630
someone else's country you know it's

2556
01:43:25,090 --> 01:43:23,000
kind of like I mean a classic example

2557
01:43:27,730 --> 01:43:25,100
how many people in America right now

2558
01:43:30,940 --> 01:43:27,740
might know what are the most popular

2559
01:43:32,830 --> 01:43:30,950
programs on English TV in general coming

2560
01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:32,840
up many you know and vice-versa

2561
01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:34,970
the only English programs we know about

2562
01:43:39,760 --> 01:43:37,610
of course are Doctor Who and a few shows

2563
01:43:42,190 --> 01:43:39,770
on BBC America that's about it are you a

2564
01:43:43,870 --> 01:43:42,200
fan of Doctor Who no I don't like

2565
01:43:47,320 --> 01:43:43,880
science fiction at all

2566
01:43:48,790 --> 01:43:47,330
I don't watch you know all right which

2567
01:43:51,400 --> 01:43:48,800
is kind of an interesting thing yeah I

2568
01:43:54,940 --> 01:43:51,410
mean I'm interested in UFOs and write

2569
01:43:57,280 --> 01:43:54,950
about them but you know space fights and

2570
01:43:59,320 --> 01:43:57,290
laser guns and silver suits like aura

2571
01:44:02,590 --> 01:43:59,330
but science fiction doesn't really do

2572
01:44:05,080 --> 01:44:02,600
anything for me you know and it sort of

2573
01:44:13,120 --> 01:44:05,090
lofty highbrow in sci-fi does even less

2574
01:44:15,220 --> 01:44:13,130
for me well isn't that interesting no

2575
01:44:16,780 --> 01:44:15,230
just trying to understand your very

2576
01:44:18,730 --> 01:44:16,790
personality what you're interested in

2577
01:44:20,080 --> 01:44:18,740
let's get into this subject which we

2578
01:44:22,360 --> 01:44:20,090
mentioned briefly we'll take it to the

2579
01:44:26,740 --> 01:44:22,370
next segment what is your opinion of the

2580
01:44:29,530 --> 01:44:26,750
possible existence of portal areas and

2581
01:44:32,350 --> 01:44:29,540
you do that very briefly I want more

2582
01:44:34,150 --> 01:44:32,360
detail in this segment we only have like

2583
01:44:37,480 --> 01:44:34,160
30 40 seconds left then we'll move to

2584
01:44:39,520 --> 01:44:37,490
the next one well I mean in that sort of

2585
01:44:42,490 --> 01:44:39,530
period time you know I'd say that I

2586
01:44:44,560 --> 01:44:42,500
actually do think that answers a lot of

2587
01:44:46,930 --> 01:44:44,570
the questions I think the more we dig

2588
01:44:48,490 --> 01:44:46,940
into it and the way these cases are so

2589
01:44:51,370 --> 01:44:48,500
fragmented and these things are here and

2590
01:44:53,320 --> 01:44:51,380
gone I actually think the portal window

2591
01:44:55,780 --> 01:44:53,330
air attack alias to speak about it is

2592
01:44:57,430 --> 01:44:55,790
more valid than the you know the nuts

2593
01:44:58,510 --> 01:44:57,440
and bolts craft coming from this star

2594
01:45:00,250 --> 01:44:58,520
system or that one

2595
01:45:02,530 --> 01:45:00,260
it's only a faster way of getting here

2596
01:45:05,110 --> 01:45:02,540
I'll tell you that okay folks let me

2597
01:45:07,170 --> 01:45:05,120
just tell you that Chris O'Brien is on

2598
01:45:09,910 --> 01:45:07,180
assignment they'll be back next week

2599
01:45:12,010 --> 01:45:09,920
with more exciting stuff to report

2600
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:12,020
officially about that UFO convention

2601
01:45:27,390 --> 01:45:14,810
he's attending he's Nick Redfern I'm

2602
01:45:33,720 --> 01:45:30,540
the GC and radio network providing the

2603
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:33,730
world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

2604
01:45:40,170 --> 01:45:38,410
and great talk radio starts here hi this

2605
01:45:42,570 --> 01:45:40,180
is Ted Anderson if you'd like to listen

2606
01:45:45,210 --> 01:45:42,580
to GCN programs on the goal I have great

2607
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news gzn has created a Droid and iPhone

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2611
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2617
01:46:08,460 --> 01:46:06,010
for listening to GC and live.com again

2618
01:46:10,560 --> 01:46:08,470
that's juicy and live.com we the people

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2620
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2621
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2622
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2623
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2624
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2625
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2626
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2627
01:46:24,780 --> 01:46:23,440
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2628
01:46:26,220 --> 01:46:24,790
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2629
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2630
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that explains our monetary system call

2631
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for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

2632
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2633
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2641
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2642
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2645
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one two one renovation teas renovate

2658
01:47:40,629 --> 01:47:36,590
your health

2659
01:47:42,669 --> 01:47:40,639
one bag at a time we'd like to hear from

2660
01:47:46,060 --> 01:47:42,679
you if you have a comment or question

2661
01:47:49,479 --> 01:47:46,070
about the para cast sent it to muse

2662
01:47:52,359 --> 01:47:49,489
at the para cast com that's news at the

2663
01:47:55,089 --> 01:47:52,369
para cast calm and don't forget to visit

2664
01:48:00,640 --> 01:47:55,099
our famous para cast community forums at

2665
01:48:02,830 --> 01:48:00,650
forum dot the para cast calm haha and a

2666
01:48:05,260 --> 01:48:02,840
couple of Ho Hos and the para cast Nick

2667
01:48:07,660 --> 01:48:05,270
Redfern joining us as guest and guest

2668
01:48:09,399 --> 01:48:07,670
co-host playing the dual role he has

2669
01:48:11,830 --> 01:48:09,409
become schizophrenic there two of him

2670
01:48:13,930 --> 01:48:11,840
right now I'm seeing on one Nick over

2671
01:48:16,899 --> 01:48:13,940
there one Nick over there but this show

2672
01:48:20,410 --> 01:48:16,909
is actually a modified that's actually

2673
01:48:22,390 --> 01:48:20,420
six or eight but seriously speaking all

2674
01:48:24,700 --> 01:48:22,400
seriousness aside folks we've been

2675
01:48:26,439 --> 01:48:24,710
talking about the future of ufology and

2676
01:48:29,560 --> 01:48:26,449
answering your questions that formed up

2677
01:48:30,970 --> 01:48:29,570
the para cast calm GOx Mackey had asked

2678
01:48:33,040 --> 01:48:30,980
several questions actually three

2679
01:48:34,870 --> 01:48:33,050
questions or four questions depending on

2680
01:48:36,820 --> 01:48:34,880
how you combine them and the mid

2681
01:48:39,250 --> 01:48:36,830
question was what is your opinion of the

2682
01:48:40,899 --> 01:48:39,260
possible existence of portal areas but

2683
01:48:43,149 --> 01:48:40,909
we have a very wide-ranging audience

2684
01:48:44,620 --> 01:48:43,159
here Nick and some of our listeners know

2685
01:48:46,600 --> 01:48:44,630
what I'm talking about what you're

2686
01:48:49,649 --> 01:48:46,610
talking about when we talk of window

2687
01:48:53,890 --> 01:48:49,659
areas portal areas for those who need a

2688
01:48:56,470 --> 01:48:53,900
101 or an FAQ about portal areas what

2689
01:48:58,510 --> 01:48:56,480
are they well basically I mean that over

2690
01:49:00,879 --> 01:48:58,520
the years or decades they've had various

2691
01:49:03,459 --> 01:49:00,889
titles like John keel talk about window

2692
01:49:06,810 --> 01:49:03,469
areas other people talked about portals

2693
01:49:09,220 --> 01:49:06,820
gateways to other realms of existence

2694
01:49:12,129 --> 01:49:09,230
interdimensional gateways or doorways

2695
01:49:13,990 --> 01:49:12,139
now you know all those terms of of

2696
01:49:15,910 --> 01:49:14,000
course theoretical but you know things

2697
01:49:18,220 --> 01:49:15,920
like quantum physics today are allowing

2698
01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:18,230
for the existence of other dimensions I

2699
01:49:22,330 --> 01:49:20,570
guess the best way to describe is you

2700
01:49:24,790 --> 01:49:22,340
know you're in your car driving down the

2701
01:49:26,530 --> 01:49:24,800
road and you turn the radio on and for

2702
01:49:28,390 --> 01:49:26,540
me if I turn the radio on and there's

2703
01:49:30,790 --> 01:49:28,400
classical music playing I'm like oh god

2704
01:49:32,439 --> 01:49:30,800
quickly change the channel and then if

2705
01:49:34,780 --> 01:49:32,449
it's disco I change it again until

2706
01:49:37,120 --> 01:49:34,790
there's something heavy pounding and

2707
01:49:38,500 --> 01:49:37,130
guitar based and then I leave it on so

2708
01:49:39,910 --> 01:49:38,510
in other words all these channels are

2709
01:49:41,830 --> 01:49:39,920
playing at the same time but you can

2710
01:49:43,689 --> 01:49:41,840
only be tuned into one at any given

2711
01:49:45,729 --> 01:49:43,699
moment and unless you understand the

2712
01:49:47,530 --> 01:49:45,739
technology of radio you can only ever be

2713
01:49:49,479 --> 01:49:47,540
on one you know if you don't know the

2714
01:49:50,350 --> 01:49:49,489
turning this particular dial changes the

2715
01:49:52,359 --> 01:49:50,360
channel you're always

2716
01:49:54,640 --> 01:49:52,369
on the one channel and it's kinda like

2717
01:49:57,430 --> 01:49:54,650
that the idea that there are coexisting

2718
01:50:00,100 --> 01:49:57,440
realms alongside us and one of the

2719
01:50:02,350 --> 01:50:00,110
reason why I think these this scenario

2720
01:50:03,939 --> 01:50:02,360
is valid is because there are certain

2721
01:50:06,479 --> 01:50:03,949
areas of the world which we might term

2722
01:50:09,580 --> 01:50:06,489
sort of hotspots where they seem to be

2723
01:50:11,649 --> 01:50:09,590
overloaded with just weird activity and

2724
01:50:13,660 --> 01:50:11,659
maybe these window areas aren't always

2725
01:50:16,780 --> 01:50:13,670
static in one area that they come and go

2726
01:50:18,700 --> 01:50:16,790
which might explain for example in the

2727
01:50:20,140 --> 01:50:18,710
nineteen sixties when you had the

2728
01:50:22,180 --> 01:50:20,150
Mothman encounters at Point Pleasant

2729
01:50:23,859 --> 01:50:22,190
West Virginia you know it was like the

2730
01:50:26,800 --> 01:50:23,869
town was suddenly hit for a couple of

2731
01:50:29,020 --> 01:50:26,810
years with Mothman sightings contactee

2732
01:50:32,080 --> 01:50:29,030
cases alien encounters the men in black

2733
01:50:34,240 --> 01:50:32,090
poltergeist activity occult activity and

2734
01:50:36,129 --> 01:50:34,250
the bridge falling into the river and

2735
01:50:38,140 --> 01:50:36,139
all the people dying you know which some

2736
01:50:39,070 --> 01:50:38,150
people viewed as an omen and then it

2737
01:50:41,439 --> 01:50:39,080
came to an end

2738
01:50:44,290 --> 01:50:41,449
okay well that implies a lot of stuff in

2739
01:50:46,149 --> 01:50:44,300
your one paragraph answer so I'm going

2740
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:46,159
to ask about that the men in black is

2741
01:50:51,189 --> 01:50:48,770
that a manifestation of creatures from

2742
01:50:56,109 --> 01:50:51,199
elsewhere or just the government or

2743
01:50:58,899 --> 01:50:56,119
hoaxes or all of the above book in 2011

2744
01:51:02,320 --> 01:50:58,909
the real men in black you know looks at

2745
01:51:03,459 --> 01:51:02,330
this whole mystery and I like the UFO

2746
01:51:06,189 --> 01:51:03,469
subject I don't think it can be

2747
01:51:08,320 --> 01:51:06,199
categorized as one thing or another yes

2748
01:51:11,020 --> 01:51:08,330
they're being cases of hoaxes in yes sir

2749
01:51:12,580 --> 01:51:11,030
the in cases of mistaken identity there

2750
01:51:15,100 --> 01:51:12,590
are reports obviously in the fifties

2751
01:51:17,379 --> 01:51:15,110
when people like the FBI dress like the

2752
01:51:19,780 --> 01:51:17,389
men in black you know black suits black

2753
01:51:22,149 --> 01:51:19,790
tie and fedora hat and they typically

2754
01:51:24,399 --> 01:51:22,159
turn up in a 50 star black car so some

2755
01:51:27,250 --> 01:51:24,409
cases can be explained as the government

2756
01:51:28,959 --> 01:51:27,260
but there are we're very weird many

2757
01:51:30,879 --> 01:51:28,969
black cases and most of these were the

2758
01:51:32,109 --> 01:51:30,889
ones that sort of focused on Point

2759
01:51:35,890 --> 01:51:32,119
Pleasant where you have these sort of

2760
01:51:37,590 --> 01:51:35,900
skinny pale faced little guys who have

2761
01:51:39,910 --> 01:51:37,600
sort of no understanding of our culture

2762
01:51:43,200 --> 01:51:39,920
they're actually come across as more

2763
01:51:45,820 --> 01:51:43,210
less secret agents and more paleface

2764
01:51:48,970 --> 01:51:45,830
paranormal ghouls or something like that

2765
01:51:50,169 --> 01:51:48,980
I don't use those terms literally and I

2766
01:51:52,090 --> 01:51:50,179
think the real men in black are a

2767
01:51:54,970 --> 01:51:52,100
manifestation of something paranormal

2768
01:51:56,350 --> 01:51:54,980
that's always been with us and the men

2769
01:51:58,720 --> 01:51:56,360
in black is sort of their latest

2770
01:52:00,879 --> 01:51:58,730
incarnation and that you know getting

2771
01:52:04,150 --> 01:52:00,889
involved and is can be sort of a dicey

2772
01:52:06,280 --> 01:52:04,160
you know sort of area not to mess around

2773
01:52:07,990 --> 01:52:06,290
you know sort of the Playboy Albert

2774
01:52:10,900 --> 01:52:08,000
bender look at the trouble he got into

2775
01:52:13,060 --> 01:52:10,910
you know so much yes even true that

2776
01:52:14,650 --> 01:52:13,070
Albert bender was anything more than

2777
01:52:16,600 --> 01:52:14,660
just somebody a little screwy who

2778
01:52:18,760 --> 01:52:16,610
invented a cover story where his

2779
01:52:20,800 --> 01:52:18,770
interest changed well you know II don't

2780
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:20,810
think so when you look into it you know

2781
01:52:26,230 --> 01:52:24,650
he exhibited a lot of the aspects of

2782
01:52:28,150 --> 01:52:26,240
people talk about when they sort of get

2783
01:52:30,490 --> 01:52:28,160
involved in these type of foreign

2784
01:52:32,200 --> 01:52:30,500
phenomena too deeply and then the

2785
01:52:34,960 --> 01:52:32,210
phenomena gets its grips into them you

2786
01:52:36,850 --> 01:52:34,970
know he began to suffer psychological

2787
01:52:39,910 --> 01:52:36,860
health problems physical health problems

2788
01:52:40,750 --> 01:52:39,920
bad luck just overwhelming negativity in

2789
01:52:43,420 --> 01:52:40,760
his life

2790
01:52:44,830 --> 01:52:43,430
and you know just strange things like

2791
01:52:46,870 --> 01:52:44,840
this that you can go throughout history

2792
01:52:48,940 --> 01:52:46,880
you know demonic possession and the so

2793
01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:48,950
many parallels in what he had but I

2794
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:50,810
really do believe is sort of like an

2795
01:52:55,480 --> 01:52:52,730
occult world and if you open the door to

2796
01:52:57,490 --> 01:52:55,490
it it's not necessarily a good thing to

2797
01:52:59,920 --> 01:52:57,500
do and I think possibly you know these

2798
01:53:03,190 --> 01:52:59,930
phenomena manifesting the way that our

2799
01:53:04,870 --> 01:53:03,200
subconscious fears or desires even want

2800
01:53:07,060 --> 01:53:04,880
them to you know that there's some

2801
01:53:09,280 --> 01:53:07,070
evidence to suggest that bender may well

2802
01:53:11,500 --> 01:53:09,290
have got a visit from government people

2803
01:53:14,050 --> 01:53:11,510
and warning didn't warn him about his

2804
01:53:16,120 --> 01:53:14,060
UFO group this was very at the time of

2805
01:53:17,890 --> 01:53:16,130
the Robertson panels that make sense but

2806
01:53:19,690 --> 01:53:17,900
then what I think happened was he got so

2807
01:53:20,620 --> 01:53:19,700
panicked by this imagery of the

2808
01:53:23,470 --> 01:53:20,630
black-suited

2809
01:53:25,600 --> 01:53:23,480
government people visited him the the

2810
01:53:28,600 --> 01:53:25,610
paranormal aspect got its grapes into

2811
01:53:29,860 --> 01:53:28,610
him by amplifying that imagery even more

2812
01:53:32,650 --> 01:53:29,870
and you know this sort of the paranormal

2813
01:53:34,990 --> 01:53:32,660
many black men strode into his life we

2814
01:53:37,090 --> 01:53:35,000
implying that that the paranormal can be

2815
01:53:39,490 --> 01:53:37,100
very negative oh yeah I don't dispute

2816
01:53:40,930 --> 01:53:39,500
that at all I think you know I you know

2817
01:53:42,850 --> 01:53:40,940
people think it's sort of cool and

2818
01:53:44,380 --> 01:53:42,860
exciting to get involved in in Vulcan

2819
01:53:46,720 --> 01:53:44,390
they saw that or wager boards and

2820
01:53:49,150 --> 01:53:46,730
whatever you know I I do really believe

2821
01:53:52,480 --> 01:53:49,160
there's a genuine realm of the occult

2822
01:53:54,760 --> 01:53:52,490
and that it's possible to invoke contact

2823
01:53:56,950 --> 01:53:54,770
with it or open portals and doorways but

2824
01:53:59,050 --> 01:53:56,960
depending on your mindset and the

2825
01:54:01,360 --> 01:53:59,060
trickster like angler this phenomenon

2826
01:54:04,030 --> 01:54:01,370
which can be benevolent malevolent

2827
01:54:06,730 --> 01:54:04,040
friendly malicious teaching deceptive

2828
01:54:09,070 --> 01:54:06,740
every on a term it you often get what

2829
01:54:11,590 --> 01:54:09,080
sort of reflects your own character or

2830
01:54:14,770 --> 01:54:11,600
you know if you're a weak person you get

2831
01:54:16,540 --> 01:54:14,780
taken on by you know something that's a

2832
01:54:18,010 --> 01:54:16,550
very strong character because it can

2833
01:54:20,080 --> 01:54:18,020
manipulate you and push you down

2834
01:54:21,910 --> 01:54:20,090
all sorts of avenues you know a lot of

2835
01:54:23,290 --> 01:54:21,920
people don't realize it you know I mean

2836
01:54:25,210 --> 01:54:23,300
to all this sort of stuff you know I

2837
01:54:29,050 --> 01:54:25,220
view the UFO phenomena from very

2838
01:54:30,850 --> 01:54:29,060
esoteric paranormal angle not you know

2839
01:54:32,380 --> 01:54:30,860
the nuts and bolts you follow jangle but

2840
01:54:34,810 --> 01:54:32,390
I still believe the government's hide in

2841
01:54:36,310 --> 01:54:34,820
its knowledge of something but I think

2842
01:54:39,570 --> 01:54:36,320
there are people going to know it's not

2843
01:54:42,430 --> 01:54:39,580
just nuts and bolts aliens they know it

2844
01:54:44,530 --> 01:54:42,440
interacts or embraces all these other

2845
01:54:45,940 --> 01:54:44,540
weird stuff as well well I have to say I

2846
01:54:47,920 --> 01:54:45,950
haven't gotten too much detail and I

2847
01:54:50,440 --> 01:54:47,930
won't but I think maybe you have a sense

2848
01:54:52,810 --> 01:54:50,450
of it that my life has taken on a number

2849
01:54:54,850 --> 01:54:52,820
of very strangely negative aspects in

2850
01:54:56,110 --> 01:54:54,860
recent years so I don't know whether

2851
01:54:59,380 --> 01:54:56,120
that has anything to do with a

2852
01:55:00,940 --> 01:54:59,390
phenomenon or just the draw well I mean

2853
01:55:02,680 --> 01:55:00,950
what you have to keep it balanced

2854
01:55:04,870 --> 01:55:02,690
because you know one of the things that

2855
01:55:06,820 --> 01:55:04,880
kind of annoys me about ufologists

2856
01:55:08,530 --> 01:55:06,830
sometimes is that if anything happens in

2857
01:55:11,110 --> 01:55:08,540
someone's life and they're a ufologist

2858
01:55:13,390 --> 01:55:11,120
it was because of have you followed you

2859
01:55:15,550 --> 01:55:13,400
I'm just thinking there's a thread in

2860
01:55:17,740 --> 01:55:15,560
our forums which says just because we're

2861
01:55:20,500 --> 01:55:17,750
paranoid doesn't mean they aren't

2862
01:55:22,600 --> 01:55:20,510
watching us so maybe something's weird

2863
01:55:23,470 --> 01:55:22,610
are happening but then bad luck happens

2864
01:55:25,780 --> 01:55:23,480
to everybody

2865
01:55:28,990 --> 01:55:25,790
people have reverses in their lives and

2866
01:55:31,450 --> 01:55:29,000
you do not have to assume it's being

2867
01:55:33,040 --> 01:55:31,460
caused by some external negative force

2868
01:55:35,170 --> 01:55:33,050
by why do I ask one more thing before we

2869
01:55:36,460 --> 01:55:35,180
go on from portal areas and we'll be

2870
01:55:38,440 --> 01:55:36,470
getting into something else which is

2871
01:55:41,320 --> 01:55:38,450
related in a moment and that is the

2872
01:55:43,720 --> 01:55:41,330
crash of the Silver Bridge it's just a

2873
01:55:45,430 --> 01:55:43,730
crash right well you know it depends how

2874
01:55:46,540 --> 01:55:45,440
you look at it I mean different people

2875
01:55:48,580 --> 01:55:46,550
have looked at it from a different

2876
01:55:51,160 --> 01:55:48,590
perspective you know sometimes a bridge

2877
01:55:52,750 --> 01:55:51,170
falls into the water just because it

2878
01:55:55,060 --> 01:55:52,760
fell into the water because you know the

2879
01:55:57,790 --> 01:55:55,070
struts of decayed over the years or

2880
01:55:59,710 --> 01:55:57,800
whatever other people point out that of

2881
01:56:01,570 --> 01:55:59,720
all places it could have collapsed was

2882
01:56:04,480 --> 01:56:01,580
when within Point Pleasant

2883
01:56:06,130 --> 01:56:04,490
you know when Mothman sightings etc at

2884
01:56:08,350 --> 01:56:06,140
their height and of course you can go

2885
01:56:10,180 --> 01:56:08,360
throughout any aspect of culture and

2886
01:56:12,240 --> 01:56:10,190
history said the world and find that

2887
01:56:14,230 --> 01:56:12,250
bridges have always been associated with

2888
01:56:14,740 --> 01:56:14,240
paranormal phenomena you know that's a

2889
01:56:16,300 --> 01:56:14,750
fact

2890
01:56:18,730 --> 01:56:16,310
you know you can take UFOs out of the

2891
01:56:21,700 --> 01:56:18,740
equation and every country you know has

2892
01:56:23,410 --> 01:56:21,710
the legend of the you know the ghostly

2893
01:56:25,090 --> 01:56:23,420
lady of the bridge or the troll of the

2894
01:56:27,220 --> 01:56:25,100
bridge you know or the bigfoot of the

2895
01:56:30,730 --> 01:56:27,230
bridge that kind of thing so bridges

2896
01:56:31,959 --> 01:56:30,740
have played a long-standing role in you

2897
01:56:34,419 --> 01:56:31,969
know paranormal activities

2898
01:56:36,100 --> 01:56:34,429
you know in this angle you know I

2899
01:56:37,479 --> 01:56:36,110
truthfully don't know what the answer is

2900
01:56:39,489 --> 01:56:37,489
you know I actually don't will I have

2901
01:56:41,469 --> 01:56:39,499
the idea that in this case a bridge is

2902
01:56:44,049 --> 01:56:41,479
just a bridge sometimes it is in the

2903
01:56:46,419 --> 01:56:44,059
same way you know that a ufologist dies

2904
01:56:49,180 --> 01:56:46,429
young well you can fight unfortunately

2905
01:56:51,160 --> 01:56:49,190
you can find any aspect of human society

2906
01:56:53,950 --> 01:56:51,170
where somebody isn't expected to die

2907
01:56:55,120 --> 01:56:53,960
young dies young or where somebody new

2908
01:56:56,830 --> 01:56:55,130
ecology commits suicide

2909
01:56:59,379 --> 01:56:56,840
I was really murdered by the government

2910
01:57:02,290 --> 01:56:59,389
but again any cross-cultural look at

2911
01:57:04,719 --> 01:57:02,300
society somebody who never expected to

2912
01:57:06,549 --> 01:57:04,729
reach suicide suddenly does you know and

2913
01:57:08,739 --> 01:57:06,559
the people say oh he was he always

2914
01:57:10,509 --> 01:57:08,749
stayed a very happy guy you know I've

2915
01:57:13,000 --> 01:57:10,519
never persuade you by that sort of stuff

2916
01:57:15,069 --> 01:57:13,010
so we assume here that life can have its

2917
01:57:18,250 --> 01:57:15,079
reverses but there's no reason whatever

2918
01:57:20,080 --> 01:57:18,260
to assume it's related to phenomena or a

2919
01:57:23,169 --> 01:57:20,090
single phenomenon occurred to the brick

2920
01:57:29,560 --> 01:57:23,179
Chris O'Brien is on assignment I'm gene

2921
01:57:29,570 --> 01:57:37,030
[Music]

2922
01:57:43,400 --> 01:57:39,530
hey neighbors you've seen all those

2923
01:57:45,770 --> 01:57:43,410
crazy wacky products on TV the perfect

2924
01:57:49,670 --> 01:57:45,780
tortilla easy covers hot booties

2925
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:49,680
furniture fix petty spin and more where

2926
01:57:54,890 --> 01:57:51,930
do you find all that stuff you go to as

2927
01:57:57,650 --> 01:57:54,900
seen on tv comm because this is the

2928
01:57:59,990 --> 01:57:57,660
one-stop source for all of these TV

2929
01:58:03,410 --> 01:58:00,000
goods advertised find all your favorites

2930
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is seen on TV check them out as seen on

2931
01:58:08,150 --> 01:58:06,470
tv dot-com and by the way save 10%

2932
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here's what you do

2933
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use the code scene 1 scen number 1 scene

2934
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1 go to as seen on tv comm to order save

2935
01:58:25,610 --> 01:58:21,540
10% purchase this summer's hottest as

2936
01:58:28,190 --> 01:58:25,620
seen on tv items save 10% or call one

2937
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eight six six two seven seven three

2938
01:58:34,340 --> 01:58:31,560
three six six one eight six six two

2939
01:58:38,630 --> 01:58:34,350
seven seven three three six six the code

2940
01:58:40,130 --> 01:58:38,640
scene 1 to save 10% hi Jason Lewis here

2941
01:58:42,740 --> 01:58:40,140
anybody who's been listening to my

2942
01:58:43,430 --> 01:58:42,750
program knows how shaky the US economy

2943
01:58:45,980 --> 01:58:43,440
is right now

2944
01:58:48,470 --> 01:58:45,990
will we have a v-shaped recovery or will

2945
01:58:50,660 --> 01:58:48,480
it be a w-shaped one where the nation

2946
01:58:52,310 --> 01:58:50,670
slips back into recession of course if

2947
01:58:54,320 --> 01:58:52,320
you think that Washington can spend or

2948
01:58:56,090 --> 01:58:54,330
inflate its way out of a downturn you've

2949
01:58:58,430 --> 01:58:56,100
got nothing to worry about but as you

2950
01:59:01,370 --> 01:58:58,440
know I have my doubts so let me tell you

2951
01:59:03,800 --> 01:59:01,380
about gold now as my friend Ted Anderson

2952
01:59:06,110 --> 01:59:03,810
from Midas Resources likes to say gold

2953
01:59:08,390 --> 01:59:06,120
like all commodity markets fluctuates in

2954
01:59:10,760 --> 01:59:08,400
price and you could lose money but it

2955
01:59:12,080 --> 01:59:10,770
has never been worth zero give it some

2956
01:59:14,360 --> 01:59:12,090
thought and if you're interested in

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converting your IRA to gold or would

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like to actually have it in your

2959
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2960
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importantly herbal teas are effective

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and non-addictive renovation tea is

2962
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2963
02:00:01,520 --> 01:59:59,190
spent years researching herbs and their

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2965
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uses only a hundred percent organic

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2968
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2969
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2972
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2973
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2974
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2976
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2977
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2979
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2981
02:00:45,620 --> 02:00:43,050
elimination of toxins that bears

2982
02:00:47,470 --> 02:00:45,630
repeating digestive health is the key to

2983
02:00:50,270 --> 02:00:47,480
wellness and elimination of toxins and

2984
02:00:52,910 --> 02:00:50,280
pro-am one daily probiotic cleanse is

2985
02:00:55,220 --> 02:00:52,920
the key to digestive health pro-am one

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is a powerful liquid probiotic strong

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2988
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every day pro-am one is dairy wheat and

2989
02:01:03,320 --> 02:01:01,500
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2990
02:01:04,940 --> 02:01:03,330
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2991
02:01:06,560 --> 02:01:04,950
no preservatives or animal products

2992
02:01:08,570 --> 02:01:06,570
supports a healthy digestive and immune

2993
02:01:10,370 --> 02:01:08,580
system supports weight loss improves

2994
02:01:12,140 --> 02:01:10,380
absorption of food nutrients aids and

2995
02:01:14,390 --> 02:01:12,150
controlling yeast infections is never

2996
02:01:16,040 --> 02:01:14,400
freeze-dried and uses three groups of

2997
02:01:18,290 --> 02:01:16,050
live viable beneficial microbes to

2998
02:01:20,000 --> 02:01:18,300
cleanse and remove toxins order Pro Am

2999
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one daily probiotic cleanse at Terra

3000
02:01:28,280 --> 02:01:24,840
ganic scum spelled ter a GaN IX com

3001
02:01:30,410 --> 02:01:28,290
tarragon x-com or call toll-free 866

3002
02:01:32,510 --> 02:01:30,420
three six nine three six seven eight

3003
02:01:35,690 --> 02:01:32,520
that's eight six six three six nine

3004
02:01:45,010 --> 02:01:35,700
three six seven eight pro em1 the raw

3005
02:01:53,050 --> 02:01:48,709
welcome back to the para cast the gold

3006
02:02:00,770 --> 02:01:53,060
standard of paranormal radio and now

3007
02:02:03,590 --> 02:02:00,780
here's Jane Steinberg Nick Redfern

3008
02:02:05,689 --> 02:02:03,600
joining us some Jean Steinberg he is

3009
02:02:07,729 --> 02:02:05,699
both guest and guest co-host this week

3010
02:02:09,760 --> 02:02:07,739
Chris O'Brien's on assignment he'll tell

3011
02:02:13,040 --> 02:02:09,770
us more next week we were exploring the

3012
02:02:15,770 --> 02:02:13,050
portal areas and about people getting

3013
02:02:17,479 --> 02:02:15,780
caught up in paranormal or UFO related

3014
02:02:19,790 --> 02:02:17,489
events we were answering the questions

3015
02:02:22,250 --> 02:02:19,800
from GOG smacky and our forums had

3016
02:02:24,470 --> 02:02:22,260
formed out the para cast I come here's

3017
02:02:27,850 --> 02:02:24,480
one more question from him do you think

3018
02:02:31,100 --> 02:02:27,860
the UFO phenomenon is just one single

3019
02:02:33,770 --> 02:02:31,110
as-yet-unidentified phenomena or are

3020
02:02:36,740 --> 02:02:33,780
there multiple sources ET military

3021
02:02:39,020 --> 02:02:36,750
trickster etc places like skinwalker

3022
02:02:42,169 --> 02:02:39,030
ranch caused me to question everything I

3023
02:02:44,720 --> 02:02:42,179
ever thought I knew about UFOs it really

3024
02:02:48,709 --> 02:02:44,730
muddies the water in terms of clarity

3025
02:02:50,870 --> 02:02:48,719
for me what do you think well yeah but

3026
02:02:53,629 --> 02:02:50,880
it shouldn't muddy the waters I'll say

3027
02:02:55,640 --> 02:02:53,639
for why because we should realize that

3028
02:02:57,439 --> 02:02:55,650
the phenomenon really isn't one thing

3029
02:02:59,870 --> 02:02:57,449
you know that the the question is

3030
02:03:02,000 --> 02:02:59,880
actually correct that when you look at

3031
02:03:04,820 --> 02:03:02,010
it there are some reports that do

3032
02:03:08,209 --> 02:03:04,830
suggest solid nuts-and-bolts craft which

3033
02:03:09,979 --> 02:03:08,219
could have been et I had my suspicions

3034
02:03:13,310 --> 02:03:09,989
at at least some of the black triangles

3035
02:03:15,919 --> 02:03:13,320
our military aircraft don't say all of

3036
02:03:18,050 --> 02:03:15,929
them have some of them are you know do I

3037
02:03:20,180 --> 02:03:18,060
think that ball white men in some cases

3038
02:03:22,189 --> 02:03:20,190
has been responsible for a few UFO

3039
02:03:24,290 --> 02:03:22,199
incidents yeah I'm certain it has in the

3040
02:03:25,340 --> 02:03:24,300
same way as you know sort of plasmas

3041
02:03:27,740 --> 02:03:25,350
that the British Ministry of Defence

3042
02:03:29,930 --> 02:03:27,750
addressed in their condign report that

3043
02:03:31,850 --> 02:03:29,940
was released a few years ago you know a

3044
02:03:33,320 --> 02:03:31,860
lot of people for us to cover story but

3045
02:03:35,959 --> 02:03:33,330
if you read that it talks about how

3046
02:03:38,720 --> 02:03:35,969
these plasmas can affect the human mind

3047
02:03:40,550 --> 02:03:38,730
and make people see you know vision have

3048
02:03:42,919 --> 02:03:40,560
vision the experiences and things like

3049
02:03:45,050 --> 02:03:42,929
that so it's a pretty in-depth report so

3050
02:03:47,720 --> 02:03:45,060
you have that angle you know you have

3051
02:03:49,840 --> 02:03:47,730
things like Mac Tony's crypto

3052
02:03:52,580 --> 02:03:49,850
terrestrial idea you know that of

3053
02:03:54,560 --> 02:03:52,590
ancient human always living alongside us

3054
02:03:56,330 --> 02:03:54,570
trying to pass themselves off as

3055
02:03:57,920 --> 02:03:56,340
extraterrestrial to match their real

3056
02:04:00,290 --> 02:03:57,930
identity you have the time

3057
02:04:02,270 --> 02:04:00,300
Travel Theory you know the idea that he

3058
02:04:04,550 --> 02:04:02,280
just from the future coming back to try

3059
02:04:07,580 --> 02:04:04,560
and say the species thousands of years

3060
02:04:10,400 --> 02:04:07,590
from now you have the interdimensional

3061
02:04:11,960 --> 02:04:10,410
the portal angle now I'm not saying of

3062
02:04:14,660 --> 02:04:11,970
course all these are correct but what I

3063
02:04:18,200 --> 02:04:14,670
am saying is that there's no reason why

3064
02:04:19,820 --> 02:04:18,210
we shouldn't take the view that multiple

3065
02:04:22,700 --> 02:04:19,830
things should be going on why should it

3066
02:04:25,130 --> 02:04:22,710
just be a tea or it's all just model

3067
02:04:27,380 --> 02:04:25,140
UFOs hanging on a piece of wire you know

3068
02:04:29,900 --> 02:04:27,390
there's no reason why multiple theories

3069
02:04:32,440 --> 02:04:29,910
can't be correct so in the answer

3070
02:04:35,120 --> 02:04:32,450
therefore what are UFOs all of the above

3071
02:04:37,280 --> 02:04:35,130
exactly okay what about skinwalker ranch

3072
02:04:39,530 --> 02:04:37,290
now we did a special round table on

3073
02:04:41,840 --> 02:04:39,540
skinwalker ranch just a couple of weeks

3074
02:04:43,520 --> 02:04:41,850
ago one of our best received shows so

3075
02:04:45,410 --> 02:04:43,530
what's your take on all the crazy stuff

3076
02:04:47,720 --> 02:04:45,420
that's going on there well I kind of

3077
02:04:50,120 --> 02:04:47,730
view that like I view Point Pleasant or

3078
02:04:51,650 --> 02:04:50,130
I view a place near II in England near

3079
02:04:54,380 --> 02:04:51,660
penny where I grew up called the Cannock

3080
02:04:55,970 --> 02:04:54,390
Chase a large area of forest which like

3081
02:04:58,580 --> 02:04:55,980
the skinwalker ranch you know was the

3082
02:05:01,600 --> 02:04:58,590
site or still is the site of strange

3083
02:05:04,460 --> 02:05:01,610
creatures UFO s ghostly activity

3084
02:05:07,820 --> 02:05:04,470
paranormal goings-on and you know that's

3085
02:05:10,790 --> 02:05:07,830
how I view the skinwalker ranch is that

3086
02:05:13,820 --> 02:05:10,800
it's kind of like one of these window

3087
02:05:16,580 --> 02:05:13,830
area type places where it's like

3088
02:05:17,870 --> 02:05:16,590
somebody or something said okay it's

3089
02:05:20,510 --> 02:05:17,880
going to be you for the next two years

3090
02:05:23,000 --> 02:05:20,520
or whatever you know and something opens

3091
02:05:24,980 --> 02:05:23,010
and and something comes through you know

3092
02:05:27,380 --> 02:05:24,990
I don't pretend to understand the

3093
02:05:30,260 --> 02:05:27,390
science and the you know behind it all

3094
02:05:32,660 --> 02:05:30,270
but I think there's enough of a trend

3095
02:05:34,880 --> 02:05:32,670
and a pattern to see that that is what's

3096
02:05:37,580 --> 02:05:34,890
going on there you know certain areas

3097
02:05:39,620 --> 02:05:37,590
seem to about Planet cross paths with

3098
02:05:41,900 --> 02:05:39,630
with somewhere else whatever that

3099
02:05:44,180 --> 02:05:41,910
somewhere might be and it's not like a

3100
02:05:47,050 --> 02:05:44,190
permanent thing always it's like a you

3101
02:05:49,820 --> 02:05:47,060
know a temporary situation I think for a

3102
02:05:52,040 --> 02:05:49,830
specific period of time it was Point

3103
02:05:54,830 --> 02:05:52,050
Pleasant turn and the skinwalker ranch

3104
02:05:56,570 --> 02:05:54,840
in Utah it was that place is time for a

3105
02:05:59,180 --> 02:05:56,580
while as well we don't hear about the

3106
02:06:00,830 --> 02:05:59,190
Bermuda Triangle much anymore you know

3107
02:06:02,870 --> 02:06:00,840
that was the big rage I know back in the

3108
02:06:05,480 --> 02:06:02,880
70s Charles Berlitz had best-selling

3109
02:06:06,770 --> 02:06:05,490
book the Bermuda Triangle which then led

3110
02:06:09,440 --> 02:06:06,780
him into doing a book about the

3111
02:06:11,790 --> 02:06:09,450
Philadelphia Experiment Bermuda Triangle

3112
02:06:14,220 --> 02:06:11,800
what about that well yeah

3113
02:06:16,560 --> 02:06:14,230
I think one of the reasons we don't hear

3114
02:06:19,109 --> 02:06:16,570
so much about it is because as time

3115
02:06:21,209 --> 02:06:19,119
passes in some of these mysteries people

3116
02:06:22,950 --> 02:06:21,219
lose interest in them less people are

3117
02:06:25,229 --> 02:06:22,960
investigating them I think that's what

3118
02:06:28,709 --> 02:06:25,239
it comes down to a lot of the time you

3119
02:06:31,620 --> 02:06:28,719
know if we take for example you know

3120
02:06:35,180 --> 02:06:31,630
like crop circles if you look at the the

3121
02:06:37,830 --> 02:06:35,190
crop circle field today it's more about

3122
02:06:40,049 --> 02:06:37,840
recording the cases getting good

3123
02:06:42,629 --> 02:06:40,059
photographs in the media covering them

3124
02:06:45,419 --> 02:06:42,639
in the local British newspapers 20 years

3125
02:06:47,819 --> 02:06:45,429
ago it was more about researching you

3126
02:06:50,729 --> 02:06:47,829
know the the nodes and the lay of the

3127
02:06:53,129 --> 02:06:50,739
land and you know is a elevated

3128
02:06:55,020 --> 02:06:53,139
microwave microwave readings in the area

3129
02:06:57,270 --> 02:06:55,030
that kind of thing so even that's

3130
02:07:00,270 --> 02:06:57,280
changed and I think it comes down to

3131
02:07:03,899 --> 02:07:00,280
trends and trends attract people in

3132
02:07:05,040 --> 02:07:03,909
varying degrees at varying times and and

3133
02:07:07,890 --> 02:07:05,050
I think that's the same Iturbide mewtwo

3134
02:07:10,020 --> 02:07:07,900
triangle maybe it's not that there

3135
02:07:11,790 --> 02:07:10,030
aren't cases going on but if there's no

3136
02:07:13,530 --> 02:07:11,800
really really actively researching them

3137
02:07:16,680 --> 02:07:13,540
to a great degree and writing about them

3138
02:07:18,600 --> 02:07:16,690
it goes away so I even abductions I mean

3139
02:07:20,970 --> 02:07:18,610
you look at the late eighties yeah

3140
02:07:23,549 --> 02:07:20,980
whitley strieber or the eighties in

3141
02:07:25,589 --> 02:07:23,559
general you know the Andreasen books you

3142
02:07:28,049 --> 02:07:25,599
know there's a massive influx of

3143
02:07:30,120 --> 02:07:28,059
abduction books and stories even that's

3144
02:07:31,979 --> 02:07:30,130
dropped off to that today doesn't mean

3145
02:07:34,620 --> 02:07:31,989
the reports aren't going on as much but

3146
02:07:37,229 --> 02:07:34,630
you know it was not that visibly a scene

3147
02:07:38,370 --> 02:07:37,239
it kind of fades away and I think that's

3148
02:07:41,100 --> 02:07:38,380
probably what's happened with the remuda

3149
02:07:42,810 --> 02:07:41,110
triangle or maybe the events so happen

3150
02:07:44,850 --> 02:07:42,820
if people aren't around to write about

3151
02:07:46,379 --> 02:07:44,860
them well that's right sometimes you

3152
02:07:48,410 --> 02:07:46,389
know somebody goes through the Bermuda

3153
02:07:51,600 --> 02:07:48,420
Triangle has a bit of engine trouble and

3154
02:07:53,819 --> 02:07:51,610
they perceive it as being because of the

3155
02:07:55,500 --> 02:07:53,829
Bermuda Triangle because probably people

3156
02:07:57,270 --> 02:07:55,510
written about that well maybe you know

3157
02:07:59,310 --> 02:07:57,280
engine troubles just sometimes engine

3158
02:08:01,680 --> 02:07:59,320
trouble turbulence in the sky sometimes

3159
02:08:03,870 --> 02:08:01,690
just turbulence in the sky but you oh so

3160
02:08:06,030 --> 02:08:03,880
she ate it with something weird because

3161
02:08:07,560 --> 02:08:06,040
we all know the air is supposed to be

3162
02:08:09,390 --> 02:08:07,570
weird and the same thing is true about

3163
02:08:11,760 --> 02:08:09,400
other areas around the country and

3164
02:08:14,819 --> 02:08:11,770
around the world well I will never go

3165
02:08:17,040 --> 02:08:14,829
through the Bermuda Triangle because I

3166
02:08:19,740 --> 02:08:17,050
think don't get me I'll tell you right

3167
02:08:21,600 --> 02:08:19,750
now I'm positive though they're looking

3168
02:08:23,549 --> 02:08:21,610
for me but then Jim Mosely losing Key

3169
02:08:25,709 --> 02:08:23,559
West he's not that far from

3170
02:08:27,510 --> 02:08:25,719
I'm sure I went through it when I went

3171
02:08:29,279 --> 02:08:27,520
to Porto Rico on various occasions

3172
02:08:30,779 --> 02:08:29,289
looking for the chipper carried I flew

3173
02:08:34,410 --> 02:08:30,789
up from Florida I'm sure I went through

3174
02:08:36,270 --> 02:08:34,420
a bit I am ready to balance or making

3175
02:08:37,589 --> 02:08:36,280
time or anything you know but that

3176
02:08:39,479 --> 02:08:37,599
doesn't mean anything you know how do

3177
02:08:41,790 --> 02:08:39,489
you know you did maybe you forgot about

3178
02:08:45,930 --> 02:08:41,800
it what really happened no that's true

3179
02:08:47,250 --> 02:08:45,940
yeah look about that possibly maybe of

3180
02:08:49,770 --> 02:08:47,260
course we'd hope with skinwalker ranch

3181
02:08:52,200 --> 02:08:49,780
that a certain person by the name of Bob

3182
02:08:54,720 --> 02:08:52,210
Bigelow would be more forthcoming about

3183
02:08:56,250 --> 02:08:54,730
information what's your take on him do

3184
02:08:59,189 --> 02:08:56,260
you think he works for the government

3185
02:09:02,010 --> 02:08:59,199
are they feeding him cash to do his

3186
02:09:03,810 --> 02:09:02,020
stuff is he undercut the government I

3187
02:09:06,419 --> 02:09:03,820
don't know much about the guy I don't

3188
02:09:08,010 --> 02:09:06,429
see any reason why I mean you know why

3189
02:09:09,689 --> 02:09:08,020
should people be saying that about him

3190
02:09:11,939 --> 02:09:09,699
any more than anyone else you know I

3191
02:09:15,240 --> 02:09:11,949
think he's just a guy who's who's got an

3192
02:09:16,470 --> 02:09:15,250
interest in weird phenomena you know and

3193
02:09:18,450 --> 02:09:16,480
he has enough money he can do whatever

3194
02:09:20,520 --> 02:09:18,460
he wants he can be the eccentric

3195
02:09:22,979 --> 02:09:20,530
millionaire he could be doing it for his

3196
02:09:25,140 --> 02:09:22,989
own purposes he doesn't necessarily have

3197
02:09:27,479 --> 02:09:25,150
to be working for the NSA although we

3198
02:09:29,399 --> 02:09:27,489
had a guy named chip on the show a

3199
02:09:31,890 --> 02:09:29,409
couple of weeks ago I would call him a

3200
02:09:35,040 --> 02:09:31,900
skinwalker ranch insider he works

3201
02:09:37,979 --> 02:09:35,050
security and he claimed that in Las

3202
02:09:40,410 --> 02:09:37,989
Vegas which I guess is an office for the

3203
02:09:43,529 --> 02:09:40,420
people who work for Bigelow he did see

3204
02:09:45,600 --> 02:09:43,539
NSA related materials there so I don't

3205
02:09:47,399 --> 02:09:45,610
know that's the story well I guess it

3206
02:09:50,310 --> 02:09:47,409
depends how you define NSA related

3207
02:09:52,080 --> 02:09:50,320
materials I mean I've got a stash of NSA

3208
02:09:54,000 --> 02:09:52,090
related materials it's like hundreds of

3209
02:09:56,279 --> 02:09:54,010
pages of UFO FILES through the Freedom

3210
02:09:57,450 --> 02:09:56,289
of Information Act some of them have NSA

3211
02:10:00,410 --> 02:09:57,460
crests on and they're only

3212
02:10:03,149 --> 02:10:00,420
first-generation so they look and you're

3213
02:10:09,660 --> 02:10:03,159
working for the NSA we're almost assured

3214
02:10:12,419 --> 02:10:09,670
of you know oh I got do the break Chris

3215
02:10:14,970 --> 02:10:12,429
O'Brien's on assignment he's Nick

3216
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Redfern I'm gene Steinberg imagine that

3217
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and that means you're in the para cast

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independent talk radio for over a decade

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describes you then Dan pillow can help

3276
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tax problems for more than 30 years in

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fact I wrote the book that made it

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the IRS and I've helped thousands of

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need for you to suffer another day with

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3299
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online.com America land of the free but

3300
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3301
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3302
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computer sure you have antivirus

3303
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protection but it's not free is it until

3304
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3305
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3308
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3309
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your freedom and go to get better for

3310
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3311
02:14:11,000 --> 02:14:09,450
hi this is ten Anderson have you ever

3312
02:14:12,620 --> 02:14:11,010
wondered why banks stockbrokers

3313
02:14:14,450 --> 02:14:12,630
investment advisors won't talk about

3314
02:14:16,340 --> 02:14:14,460
gold IRAs they've been available since

3315
02:14:18,020 --> 02:14:16,350
nineteen eighty six yet the financial

3316
02:14:20,150 --> 02:14:18,030
industry won't recognize the value of

3317
02:14:22,760 --> 02:14:20,160
gold 4e retirement gold has outperformed

3318
02:14:24,530 --> 02:14:22,770
paper investments yet no word about IRAs

3319
02:14:28,220 --> 02:14:24,540
if you would like to have gold for your

3320
02:14:30,050 --> 02:14:28,230
retirement call 866 to 237 don't get

3321
02:14:39,540 --> 02:14:30,060
left behind by rising inflation and low

3322
02:14:46,649 --> 02:14:43,910
[Music]

3323
02:14:49,260 --> 02:14:46,659
this is the wrong clerical officer of

3324
02:14:55,050 --> 02:14:49,270
the UFO encyclopedia other books you're

3325
02:14:56,939 --> 02:14:55,060
listening to the para cap these Nick

3326
02:14:58,500 --> 02:14:56,949
Redfern I'm gene Steinberg Chris

3327
02:15:01,439 --> 02:14:58,510
O'Brien's on assignment and we're

3328
02:15:03,959 --> 02:15:01,449
exploring an article that Nick did for

3329
02:15:06,330 --> 02:15:03,969
mysterious universe called the future of

3330
02:15:07,080 --> 02:15:06,340
ufology and we're going to cover more of

3331
02:15:09,990 --> 02:15:07,090
that right now

3332
02:15:11,850 --> 02:15:10,000
Konrad Hartman who is a relatively new

3333
02:15:14,459 --> 02:15:11,860
member of our forums had formed out the

3334
02:15:17,010 --> 02:15:14,469
power cast com says in the future of

3335
02:15:19,500 --> 02:15:17,020
ufology you said can you imagine if the

3336
02:15:21,540 --> 02:15:19,510
major UFO conference of the year in the

3337
02:15:24,390 --> 02:15:21,550
United States had a group of speakers

3338
02:15:28,740 --> 02:15:24,400
where the presentations were on alien

3339
02:15:31,530 --> 02:15:28,750
abductions and DMT the Aleister Crowley

3340
02:15:34,649 --> 02:15:31,540
lamb controversy you follow djegal

3341
02:15:37,890 --> 02:15:34,659
synchronicities and the UFO occult

3342
02:15:40,020 --> 02:15:37,900
connection and his question would be in

3343
02:15:42,180 --> 02:15:40,030
response to that comment do you think

3344
02:15:45,390 --> 02:15:42,190
such a conference might be feasible on a

3345
02:15:47,669 --> 02:15:45,400
small scale and what speakers would you

3346
02:15:49,890 --> 02:15:47,679
include in the lineup maybe this is an

3347
02:15:52,919 --> 02:15:49,900
idea in the offering here what do you

3348
02:15:55,350 --> 02:15:52,929
think well I mean a conference along

3349
02:15:58,590 --> 02:15:55,360
those lines isn't just feasible I mean

3350
02:16:02,189 --> 02:15:58,600
100 percent doable the big task I

3351
02:16:04,110 --> 02:16:02,199
suppose is to convince the big groups to

3352
02:16:05,790 --> 02:16:04,120
actually put that on because you know

3353
02:16:07,379 --> 02:16:05,800
most of us certainly you know they

3354
02:16:10,020 --> 02:16:07,389
included you know we don't have the

3355
02:16:12,689 --> 02:16:10,030
money to sort of hire a big room and you

3356
02:16:14,129 --> 02:16:12,699
know fly in speakers from across the you

3357
02:16:16,260 --> 02:16:14,139
know the country or whatever it'd be

3358
02:16:18,330 --> 02:16:16,270
great if we could you know I just you

3359
02:16:19,560 --> 02:16:18,340
know it's just not going to happen but

3360
02:16:22,020 --> 02:16:19,570
so you need somebody who's got the

3361
02:16:24,390 --> 02:16:22,030
budget to be able to do that first but

3362
02:16:26,070 --> 02:16:24,400
in terms of the speakers and the subject

3363
02:16:29,100 --> 02:16:26,080
night that's not a problem I mean what I

3364
02:16:31,500 --> 02:16:29,110
would say in terms of the whole DMT

3365
02:16:33,929 --> 02:16:31,510
angle of potentially DMT you know

3366
02:16:36,120 --> 02:16:33,939
opening their ways to other realms

3367
02:16:38,040 --> 02:16:36,130
possibly I mean I would say Rick

3368
02:16:40,410 --> 02:16:38,050
Strassman because he wrote you know the

3369
02:16:43,230 --> 02:16:40,420
spirit molecule which is about the

3370
02:16:45,120 --> 02:16:43,240
effects of DMT and you know what seems

3371
02:16:48,030 --> 02:16:45,130
to the interaction with some of the

3372
02:16:51,299 --> 02:16:48,040
entities if you like but fire an altered

3373
02:16:54,480 --> 02:16:51,309
state the whole thing with Crowley and

3374
02:16:57,390 --> 02:16:54,490
lamb I would say Adam go rightly who's

3375
02:16:59,250 --> 02:16:57,400
we learn it on that subject you know if

3376
02:17:02,190 --> 02:16:59,260
you wanted to somebody else you know

3377
02:17:03,980 --> 02:17:02,200
talking about sort of esoteric angles

3378
02:17:07,379 --> 02:17:03,990
I'd say Greg Bishop you know Greg's

3379
02:17:09,060 --> 02:17:07,389
written extensively you know on the idea

3380
02:17:11,940 --> 02:17:09,070
of the the phenomenon not being

3381
02:17:13,080 --> 02:17:11,950
extraterrestrial so you know that's just

3382
02:17:15,570 --> 02:17:13,090
three off the top my head you know

3383
02:17:18,419 --> 02:17:15,580
there's there's no reason this can't be

3384
02:17:21,299 --> 02:17:18,429
done I think the problem is many of the

3385
02:17:23,430 --> 02:17:21,309
big UFO groups perceive and I have to

3386
02:17:25,379 --> 02:17:23,440
admit they're perceiving correctly but

3387
02:17:29,759 --> 02:17:25,389
what brings the punters in to the

3388
02:17:32,940 --> 02:17:29,769
conferences is conspiracies about aliens

3389
02:17:35,100 --> 02:17:32,950
and alien abductions and the idea the

3390
02:17:37,950 --> 02:17:35,110
crop circles are the work of aliens and

3391
02:17:39,930 --> 02:17:37,960
that it's all alien basically that

3392
02:17:40,469 --> 02:17:39,940
brings people in you know this may sound

3393
02:17:43,410 --> 02:17:40,479
cynical

3394
02:17:45,030 --> 02:17:43,420
I don't think major conferences would be

3395
02:17:46,530 --> 02:17:45,040
totally against some of them would

3396
02:17:48,450 --> 02:17:46,540
because they're stuck in the our way but

3397
02:17:50,160 --> 02:17:48,460
some of them wouldn't be adverse against

3398
02:17:53,459 --> 02:17:50,170
putting on that conference on those very

3399
02:17:55,469 --> 02:17:53,469
topics but they would be worried they

3400
02:17:57,540 --> 02:17:55,479
wouldn't bring enough people and they'd

3401
02:17:59,969 --> 02:17:57,550
you know lose money so they don't gamble

3402
02:18:02,850 --> 02:17:59,979
it they just go with let's have somebody

3403
02:18:07,230 --> 02:18:02,860
totally mangled Roswell crash if I was

3404
02:18:10,440 --> 02:18:07,240
at area 51 alien abductions etc etc and

3405
02:18:14,580 --> 02:18:10,450
play it safe again it's as they say

3406
02:18:16,589 --> 02:18:14,590
politically correct I so it has to be

3407
02:18:18,270 --> 02:18:16,599
commercially viable I think that's part

3408
02:18:21,060 --> 02:18:18,280
of it right there would such a

3409
02:18:23,730 --> 02:18:21,070
conference be commercially viable well

3410
02:18:25,740 --> 02:18:23,740
well that's the thing it might not be

3411
02:18:28,890 --> 02:18:25,750
but the reason it might not be is

3412
02:18:30,570 --> 02:18:28,900
because you know the audience but

3413
02:18:33,780 --> 02:18:30,580
interest in UFOs has been indoctrinated

3414
02:18:35,820 --> 02:18:33,790
to a significant degree in the 88 is

3415
02:18:39,030 --> 02:18:35,830
what you know when when the whole

3416
02:18:41,370 --> 02:18:39,040
subject is dominated by the 80 angle

3417
02:18:44,129 --> 02:18:41,380
inevitably people are drawn to it and

3418
02:18:46,830 --> 02:18:44,139
read to it and read on it they're gonna

3419
02:18:48,810 --> 02:18:46,840
be exposed mostly to the a th so you can

3420
02:18:51,660 --> 02:18:48,820
have not obviously more people amenable

3421
02:18:54,629 --> 02:18:51,670
to that theory and so you know it's sort

3422
02:18:56,219 --> 02:18:54,639
of it goes in like a cycle so yeah I

3423
02:18:59,910 --> 02:18:56,229
think that actually is something to be

3424
02:19:02,070 --> 02:18:59,920
said even amongst the audiences or the

3425
02:19:03,959 --> 02:19:02,080
potential audiences you are going to

3426
02:19:05,640 --> 02:19:03,969
have less who are going to come along to

3427
02:19:08,250 --> 02:19:05,650
that conference purely and simply

3428
02:19:10,500 --> 02:19:08,260
because less people are exposed

3429
02:19:12,360 --> 02:19:10,510
to that angle well it'd be a cool idea

3430
02:19:15,209 --> 02:19:12,370
if we can get somebody to fund it I

3431
02:19:16,889 --> 02:19:15,219
think it'd be I would even go there I'll

3432
02:19:19,769 --> 02:19:16,899
tell you I don't go to too many UFO

3433
02:19:22,740 --> 02:19:19,779
events anymore I used to but I would go

3434
02:19:24,089 --> 02:19:22,750
to this one if somebody was willing to

3435
02:19:26,940 --> 02:19:24,099
put up the money and the reason I say

3436
02:19:29,700 --> 02:19:26,950
that is because back in the 1970s I

3437
02:19:32,250 --> 02:19:29,710
tried to sponsor a UFO convention myself

3438
02:19:34,410 --> 02:19:32,260
and my first wife Geneva and the

3439
02:19:37,049 --> 02:19:34,420
gentleman by the name of Fred G Phillips

3440
02:19:39,120 --> 02:19:37,059
who was once my business partner we all

3441
02:19:41,700 --> 02:19:39,130
got together and we put on this UFO

3442
02:19:44,790 --> 02:19:41,710
convention in Valley Forge Pennsylvania

3443
02:19:46,830 --> 02:19:44,800
just outside of Philadelphia and I wish

3444
02:19:49,260 --> 02:19:46,840
we had maybe another thousand or two

3445
02:19:50,519 --> 02:19:49,270
thousand dollars to promote it I think

3446
02:19:52,980 --> 02:19:50,529
we could have brought in a really good

3447
02:19:55,349 --> 02:19:52,990
audience instead we lost about $100

3448
02:19:57,929 --> 02:19:55,359
which in nineteen seventy's dollars it

3449
02:20:00,929 --> 02:19:57,939
seemed like a lot to us so I vowed I

3450
02:20:03,000 --> 02:20:00,939
would never ever did I say never ever do

3451
02:20:05,040 --> 02:20:03,010
it again well yeah I mean you know it is

3452
02:20:06,920 --> 02:20:05,050
one of these situations where putting on

3453
02:20:09,179 --> 02:20:06,930
a conference isn't just as easy as a

3454
02:20:12,000 --> 02:20:09,189
conference you know you have the

3455
02:20:13,679 --> 02:20:12,010
logistics of booking the place getting

3456
02:20:15,540 --> 02:20:13,689
the people in you know I mean I see a

3457
02:20:17,610 --> 02:20:15,550
lot of this behind the scenes where you

3458
02:20:19,080 --> 02:20:17,620
know people appoint conferences on you

3459
02:20:21,420 --> 02:20:19,090
know because I'm speaking at conferences

3460
02:20:23,599 --> 02:20:21,430
you do see a lot of what goes on and one

3461
02:20:26,400 --> 02:20:23,609
thing I see more than anything else is

3462
02:20:28,019 --> 02:20:26,410
frazzled conference organizers you know

3463
02:20:29,910 --> 02:20:28,029
running around like headless chickens

3464
02:20:32,519 --> 02:20:29,920
worrying if they're gonna get everybody

3465
02:20:33,990 --> 02:20:32,529
in if the flights are coming on time are

3466
02:20:36,960 --> 02:20:34,000
they gonna get enough people enough

3467
02:20:39,210 --> 02:20:36,970
walkins on on the day itself you know

3468
02:20:41,160 --> 02:20:39,220
it's like I just don't want the hassle

3469
02:20:42,510 --> 02:20:41,170
you know I just can't be bothered with

3470
02:20:44,610 --> 02:20:42,520
the hassle of it all I'll go to

3471
02:20:46,469 --> 02:20:44,620
conferences and speak and I'm always

3472
02:20:48,300 --> 02:20:46,479
pleased and happy to hang out and chat

3473
02:20:49,980 --> 02:20:48,310
with people but you know don't ever ask

3474
02:20:51,840 --> 02:20:49,990
me to put a conference on because it's

3475
02:20:54,030 --> 02:20:51,850
like I couldn't think of anything worse

3476
02:20:56,910 --> 02:20:54,040
I was looking here at the schedule for

3477
02:20:58,800 --> 02:20:56,920
you folk on and that's in Santa Clara

3478
02:21:00,360 --> 02:20:58,810
California in the Silicon Valley you

3479
02:21:03,300 --> 02:21:00,370
know where they have Apple and Google

3480
02:21:04,679 --> 02:21:03,310
and all those people and in order to

3481
02:21:05,969 --> 02:21:04,689
bring a crowd they have a pretty wide

3482
02:21:08,160 --> 02:21:05,979
range of speakers of course we have our

3483
02:21:10,050 --> 02:21:08,170
own Chris O'Brien there and we have a

3484
02:21:12,090 --> 02:21:10,060
lot of really serious people there we

3485
02:21:15,179 --> 02:21:12,100
have rich Dolan but we also have a few

3486
02:21:19,800 --> 02:21:15,189
people who are shall we say more of the

3487
02:21:22,080 --> 02:21:19,810
extreme nature in terms of UFOs and you

3488
02:21:24,719 --> 02:21:22,090
have to think that it's done because

3489
02:21:26,099 --> 02:21:24,729
answers want to bring in a crowd they

3490
02:21:28,230 --> 02:21:26,109
want to bring in an audience so they

3491
02:21:29,820 --> 02:21:28,240
bring in not just the serious UFO

3492
02:21:32,130 --> 02:21:29,830
researchers who are willing to share the

3493
02:21:34,560 --> 02:21:32,140
stage but the people who maybe have

3494
02:21:36,960 --> 02:21:34,570
wackier ideas well maybe a conference

3495
02:21:38,880 --> 02:21:36,970
organizer there's nothing wrong you know

3496
02:21:40,230 --> 02:21:38,890
with wanting to fill your auditorium you

3497
02:21:42,510 --> 02:21:40,240
know that's something what every

3498
02:21:45,500 --> 02:21:42,520
conference organized should strive to do

3499
02:21:48,060 --> 02:21:45,510
but in saying that it shouldn't be

3500
02:21:50,340 --> 02:21:48,070
decided you know you shouldn't make your

3501
02:21:52,469 --> 02:21:50,350
speaker roster based on who you think

3502
02:21:56,219 --> 02:21:52,479
will fill the auditorium what you should

3503
02:21:58,380 --> 02:21:56,229
do is want to fill it but have a wide

3504
02:21:59,969 --> 02:21:58,390
range of speakers and hope you know you

3505
02:22:01,889 --> 02:21:59,979
can get the word out as to why it's

3506
02:22:04,670 --> 02:22:01,899
important to come you know not just

3507
02:22:07,620 --> 02:22:04,680
because it's the same old faces you know

3508
02:22:09,300 --> 02:22:07,630
so by all means yet try and fill your

3509
02:22:11,820 --> 02:22:09,310
auditorium but don't do it from a

3510
02:22:15,090 --> 02:22:11,830
cynical ploy of booking this person or

3511
02:22:17,880 --> 02:22:15,100
that person yes I think that ends up

3512
02:22:20,790 --> 02:22:17,890
being a negative and I think I couldn't

3513
02:22:23,099 --> 02:22:20,800
get involved in that kind of UFO style

3514
02:22:27,780 --> 02:22:23,109
event maybe it would be too politically

3515
02:22:29,400 --> 02:22:27,790
incorrect I don't even consider for the

3516
02:22:31,020 --> 02:22:29,410
politically incorrect angle issues I

3517
02:22:33,060 --> 02:22:31,030
don't want the stress and the hassle of

3518
02:22:34,440 --> 02:22:33,070
doing it you know it is because you can

3519
02:22:36,210 --> 02:22:34,450
tell you about that the equation I

3520
02:22:38,820 --> 02:22:36,220
wouldn't organize a conference on I

3521
02:22:42,840 --> 02:22:38,830
don't know how to look after your pet

3522
02:22:44,460 --> 02:22:42,850
dog you know no I I did it once and I

3523
02:22:48,990 --> 02:22:44,470
used to help Jim Mosely back in the

3524
02:22:51,570 --> 02:22:49,000
1960s Jim staged UFO conferences in New

3525
02:22:53,460 --> 02:22:51,580
York City you know monthly he'd have an

3526
02:22:55,530 --> 02:22:53,470
event with a guest speaker and then

3527
02:22:58,050 --> 02:22:55,540
every so often he'd do a really full

3528
02:22:59,730 --> 02:22:58,060
fledge UFO convention and I don't know

3529
02:23:01,440 --> 02:22:59,740
if he ever really enjoyed it because

3530
02:23:04,560 --> 02:23:01,450
you're so wrapped up in the nuts and

3531
02:23:06,570 --> 02:23:04,570
bolts of you say booking the guests and

3532
02:23:09,060 --> 02:23:06,580
making sure everybody's happy and

3533
02:23:12,480 --> 02:23:09,070
dealing with the hotels and the hassles

3534
02:23:14,520 --> 02:23:12,490
and all that stuff then trying hoping to

3535
02:23:16,530 --> 02:23:14,530
recover your expenses whether or not you

3536
02:23:19,170 --> 02:23:16,540
make money who knows I even wonder these

3537
02:23:20,910 --> 02:23:19,180
days if those convention organizers who

3538
02:23:22,679 --> 02:23:20,920
have these events and they've got all

3539
02:23:24,570 --> 02:23:22,689
these speakers flown in from around the

3540
02:23:25,950 --> 02:23:24,580
country you know you got all these plane

3541
02:23:27,750 --> 02:23:25,960
tickets and we know the airlines are

3542
02:23:30,389 --> 02:23:27,760
getting rich over them certainly if you

3543
02:23:32,310 --> 02:23:30,399
look at the places where people came to

3544
02:23:34,500 --> 02:23:32,320
attend this UFO Con in Santa Clara

3545
02:23:35,860 --> 02:23:34,510
California people from around the

3546
02:23:38,530 --> 02:23:35,870
country if

3547
02:23:40,140 --> 02:23:38,540
think of the airlines getting rich over

3548
02:23:43,210 --> 02:23:40,150
those tickets you think about hotels

3549
02:23:44,801 --> 02:23:43,220
being flush with guests but you have to

3550
02:23:45,761 --> 02:23:44,811
think do they really get enough money to

3551
02:23:49,420 --> 02:23:45,771
make it all worthwhile

3552
02:23:52,301 --> 02:23:49,430
is it worth my time yeah I mean I think

3553
02:23:54,190 --> 02:23:52,311
a lot of times you know they may break

3554
02:23:56,261 --> 02:23:54,200
even that's why I always tell people you

3555
02:23:58,960 --> 02:23:56,271
know it's like you followed you can earn

3556
02:24:00,640 --> 02:23:58,970
a living from is a either hazardous job

3557
02:24:04,660 --> 02:24:00,650
you know I couldn't no work full-time as

3558
02:24:06,970 --> 02:24:04,670
a writer but you know in terms of you

3559
02:24:10,330 --> 02:24:06,980
know that you follow G as only a very

3560
02:24:11,170 --> 02:24:10,340
few people only very few people make the

3561
02:24:13,060 --> 02:24:11,180
big bucks

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02:24:15,820 --> 02:24:13,070
he's Nick Redfern he doesn't make the

3563
02:24:16,841 --> 02:24:15,830
big bucks from UFOs I'm Jean Steinberg I

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don't either

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to the podcast the gold standard of

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Jean Steinberg and Nick Redfern are

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starving writers no joking aside he is

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one of these things you know where it's

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like any you know any self-employed job

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is um you don't starve but I mean you

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got a you've got to go where they're

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working there's no good just saying oh

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I'm you know I'm just gonna do this

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coming at Ojai Ward's you know it's if

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you're self-employed person and you you

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know whatever you are you know if you're

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a gardener if you I don't know house

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painter you know you you you go with the

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work that's offered you know all its

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available you don't just say oh I'm just

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gonna do nice old style houses you know

3690
02:29:45,261 --> 02:29:42,180
that's ridiculous you'll run out of

3691
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whole style houses exactly okay back to

3692
02:29:50,330 --> 02:29:47,370
UFOs back to the question from Conrad

3693
02:29:52,341 --> 02:29:50,340
Hartman yeah second question and it's

3694
02:29:55,220 --> 02:29:52,351
about the article that Nick did called

3695
02:29:56,930 --> 02:29:55,230
the future of ufology what elements of

3696
02:30:02,960 --> 02:29:56,940
the occult do you find most interesting

3697
02:30:05,000 --> 02:30:02,970
in relation to the UFO phenomena I would

3698
02:30:08,060 --> 02:30:05,010
say the stuff like Crowley and Jack

3699
02:30:11,120 --> 02:30:08,070
Parsons you know the idea of sort of in

3700
02:30:13,341 --> 02:30:11,130
vacations and altered states to manifest

3701
02:30:16,011 --> 02:30:13,351
these entities it sounds surprisingly

3702
02:30:19,250 --> 02:30:16,021
ufo-like and the fact that many of these

3703
02:30:21,620 --> 02:30:19,260
people are tied with ufology you know I

3704
02:30:23,900 --> 02:30:21,630
mean Jack Parsons you know I some talks

3705
02:30:26,150 --> 02:30:23,910
about opening portals to let the flying

3706
02:30:28,310 --> 02:30:26,160
saucers through hours to Crowley's Lamm

3707
02:30:30,320 --> 02:30:28,320
if you look at the joy in the Crowley

3708
02:30:31,700 --> 02:30:30,330
himself made you know it would be quite

3709
02:30:33,650 --> 02:30:31,710
a home on the cover of a book about

3710
02:30:35,780 --> 02:30:33,660
abductions you know he would he's got

3711
02:30:37,280 --> 02:30:35,790
about this large hairless head and these

3712
02:30:39,170 --> 02:30:37,290
little tiny shoulders and these

3713
02:30:40,370 --> 02:30:39,180
penetrating eye is granted they're not

3714
02:30:44,120 --> 02:30:40,380
the big black eyes but they're

3715
02:30:46,551 --> 02:30:44,130
penetrating hypnotic eyes so it's things

3716
02:30:50,570 --> 02:30:46,561
like that the ID you know the altered

3717
02:30:52,430 --> 02:30:50,580
states psychedelics the potential for

3718
02:30:54,080 --> 02:30:52,440
opening doorways and portals to let

3719
02:30:57,290 --> 02:30:54,090
something so that we don't normally see

3720
02:30:59,750 --> 02:30:57,300
and you know sort of regular space-time

3721
02:31:02,240 --> 02:30:59,760
if you like those are the sort of

3722
02:31:04,070 --> 02:31:02,250
aspects of the occult that interest me

3723
02:31:06,020 --> 02:31:04,080
in relation to UFOs to be honest things

3724
02:31:07,370 --> 02:31:06,030
like ghosts bore me stupid

3725
02:31:09,110 --> 02:31:07,380
you know I've never written a book on

3726
02:31:10,790 --> 02:31:09,120
ghosts and I never will because I'm just

3727
02:31:13,910 --> 02:31:10,800
not interested you know

3728
02:31:14,450 --> 02:31:13,920
I don't know why it just never sort of

3729
02:31:17,480 --> 02:31:14,460
grabbed me

3730
02:31:19,550 --> 02:31:17,490
you know cryptozoology and UFOs it might

3731
02:31:21,230 --> 02:31:19,560
sort of to bigger areas and some

3732
02:31:24,260 --> 02:31:21,240
conspiracies or you know political

3733
02:31:28,429 --> 02:31:24,270
conspiracies kind of bore me but some

3734
02:31:30,410 --> 02:31:28,439
conspiracies but you know ghosts know in

3735
02:31:33,950 --> 02:31:30,420
terms of UFOs and the paranormal as said

3736
02:31:36,070 --> 02:31:33,960
the Crowley Parsons type of stuff in

3737
02:31:38,179 --> 02:31:36,080
your conclusion to the future of ufology

3738
02:31:40,750 --> 02:31:38,189
in big bold

3739
02:31:44,870 --> 02:31:40,760
that's a bold letters all caps you say

3740
02:31:48,800 --> 02:31:44,880
ufology has failed why well because we

3741
02:31:50,240 --> 02:31:48,810
haven't solved the mystery and you know

3742
02:31:53,200 --> 02:31:50,250
I'm not saying by now we should have

3743
02:31:55,639 --> 02:31:53,210
done but all we've really achieved is

3744
02:31:57,849 --> 02:31:55,649
we've collected a lot of sighting

3745
02:32:00,860 --> 02:31:57,859
reports a lot of witness testimony and

3746
02:32:02,630 --> 02:32:00,870
that's it we have not got any answers

3747
02:32:04,520 --> 02:32:02,640
we've developed what we've got all these

3748
02:32:06,410 --> 02:32:04,530
reports all this testimony and what

3749
02:32:08,059 --> 02:32:06,420
we've done he's not got an answer what

3750
02:32:10,670 --> 02:32:08,069
we've done is we've developed belief

3751
02:32:15,740 --> 02:32:10,680
systems or more properly one belief

3752
02:32:17,660 --> 02:32:15,750
system and so if you follow Jesus even

3753
02:32:20,240 --> 02:32:17,670
ething it needs to think more outside

3754
02:32:22,099 --> 02:32:20,250
the box but then again you know there's

3755
02:32:24,050 --> 02:32:22,109
no paranormal phenomena on the face of

3756
02:32:25,480 --> 02:32:24,060
this planet no matter how old it is that

3757
02:32:28,190 --> 02:32:25,490
we've solved to everybody's satisfaction

3758
02:32:30,800 --> 02:32:28,200
it's always stayed enigmatic and one

3759
02:32:34,370 --> 02:32:30,810
step ahead of us or one step away from

3760
02:32:36,559 --> 02:32:34,380
us so we never meant to solve the UFO

3761
02:32:38,450 --> 02:32:36,569
mystery isn't one of those things as Ray

3762
02:32:41,480 --> 02:32:38,460
Palmer said so many years ago and I've

3763
02:32:44,570 --> 02:32:41,490
quoted him a few times and gotten Rag

3764
02:32:47,830 --> 02:32:44,580
Don in iTunes refused because I say this

3765
02:32:50,450 --> 02:32:47,840
flying saucers are here to make us think

3766
02:32:52,719 --> 02:32:50,460
yeah that could be the case I mean you

3767
02:32:56,240 --> 02:32:52,729
can look at every paranormal phenomena

3768
02:32:58,330 --> 02:32:56,250
in all this we never quite get to

3769
02:33:02,599 --> 02:32:58,340
resolve in it we never quite you know

3770
02:33:04,370 --> 02:33:02,609
can confirm what a ghost is you know is

3771
02:33:06,290 --> 02:33:04,380
a projection of the mind is it really

3772
02:33:08,510 --> 02:33:06,300
somebody come back you know we don't

3773
02:33:10,610 --> 02:33:08,520
know it's a same with the UFOs it's the

3774
02:33:14,090 --> 02:33:10,620
same with the Loch Ness monster the Yeti

3775
02:33:16,400 --> 02:33:14,100
you know Roswell Kenneth Arnold it's the

3776
02:33:18,770 --> 02:33:16,410
same period they're always one step away

3777
02:33:22,309 --> 02:33:18,780
from us and we never quite get it like

3778
02:33:24,020 --> 02:33:22,319
the TV show one step beyond so what do

3779
02:33:27,051 --> 02:33:24,030
we do what's going to happen in the you

3780
02:33:30,591 --> 02:33:27,061
field is there anything we can do to

3781
02:33:33,171 --> 02:33:30,601
break out as you say break out of its

3782
02:33:35,900 --> 02:33:33,181
total failure to have ever achieved

3783
02:33:38,091 --> 02:33:35,910
anything solid well I think you know

3784
02:33:39,890 --> 02:33:38,101
some people like if they agree with me

3785
02:33:41,870 --> 02:33:39,900
they might say well what's the point of

3786
02:33:44,211 --> 02:33:41,880
doing anything else and I can understand

3787
02:33:47,330 --> 02:33:44,221
that but for me that's a defeatist

3788
02:33:51,860 --> 02:33:47,340
weight approach I think what we should

3789
02:33:54,251 --> 02:33:51,870
do is further our studies in terms of

3790
02:33:57,711 --> 02:33:54,261
looking outside this carefully

3791
02:34:00,381 --> 02:33:57,721
delineated ett coming to steal our DNA

3792
02:34:02,211 --> 02:34:00,391
because their race is doing angle you

3793
02:34:04,370 --> 02:34:02,221
know we need to look totally outside the

3794
02:34:06,381 --> 02:34:04,380
box of some of the really fringe areas

3795
02:34:08,511 --> 02:34:06,391
and dig into them as deeply as possible

3796
02:34:11,511 --> 02:34:08,521
because I think we stand a chance of

3797
02:34:13,280 --> 02:34:11,521
getting some answers versus just more

3798
02:34:14,990 --> 02:34:13,290
and more reports and more and more

3799
02:34:16,761 --> 02:34:15,000
filing cabinets and more and more memory

3800
02:34:19,040 --> 02:34:16,771
sticks you know which don't really

3801
02:34:22,100 --> 02:34:19,050
answer anything so we need to think

3802
02:34:24,110 --> 02:34:22,110
outside the box if we don't you know

3803
02:34:25,580 --> 02:34:24,120
ufology won't be dead a hundred years

3804
02:34:27,680 --> 02:34:25,590
from now they'll just be an equivalent

3805
02:34:30,261 --> 02:34:27,690
to me and you and I'm equivalent to the

3806
02:34:32,211 --> 02:34:30,271
para caste talking about Roswell and

3807
02:34:34,761 --> 02:34:32,221
Kingman you know what I want to think

3808
02:34:38,060 --> 02:34:34,771
the power cast will continue I'm gone my

3809
02:34:39,950 --> 02:34:38,070
son maybe his heirs will take over the

3810
02:34:42,801 --> 02:34:39,960
show or maybe Chris O'Brien's heirs or

3811
02:34:44,810 --> 02:34:42,811
maybe you know if Nick Redford has kids

3812
02:34:48,430 --> 02:34:44,820
they will take over we'll take it on

3813
02:34:51,110 --> 02:34:48,440
yeah and the parity and it's 150th year

3814
02:34:52,910 --> 02:34:51,120
Nick doesn't advocate and he doesn't

3815
02:34:54,890 --> 02:34:52,920
really care Leslie I don't care about

3816
02:34:58,280 --> 02:34:54,900
any legacy in the future at all I'm like

3817
02:34:59,780 --> 02:34:58,290
I do what I do and you know what the

3818
02:35:01,761 --> 02:34:59,790
future brings the future brings oh it

3819
02:35:04,011 --> 02:35:01,771
doesn't some you know I don't I don't

3820
02:35:06,410 --> 02:35:04,021
really analyze that much I'm not I'm not

3821
02:35:08,990 --> 02:35:06,420
that deep you know I just do what I do

3822
02:35:11,990 --> 02:35:09,000
and that's it okay do you think the

3823
02:35:13,850 --> 02:35:12,000
phenomenon takes us on the journey to

3824
02:35:16,280 --> 02:35:13,860
discovering what we think we're learning

3825
02:35:18,620 --> 02:35:16,290
about the subject well I do I tell you

3826
02:35:20,360 --> 02:35:18,630
why because like a lot of people who

3827
02:35:23,211 --> 02:35:20,370
investigate paranormal phenomena I get a

3828
02:35:26,540 --> 02:35:23,221
lot of synchronicities and I think it's

3829
02:35:28,220 --> 02:35:26,550
important to follow synchronicities what

3830
02:35:30,950 --> 02:35:28,230
the message is because after he takes

3831
02:35:33,470 --> 02:35:30,960
you places metaphorically and literally

3832
02:35:35,480 --> 02:35:33,480
and you know you meet people I think for

3833
02:35:36,921 --> 02:35:35,490
a certain reason so I think this I don't

3834
02:35:37,880 --> 02:35:36,931
know what why but I think there's

3835
02:35:39,649 --> 02:35:37,890
something to the Phenom

3836
02:35:42,500 --> 02:35:39,659
that sort of trying to teach us

3837
02:35:44,059 --> 02:35:42,510
something but with the flow

3838
02:35:46,670 --> 02:35:44,069
now with the flow but it's a learning

3839
02:35:48,380 --> 02:35:46,680
magic it's difficult to understand why

3840
02:35:50,360 --> 02:35:48,390
it's doing it but it's hard to read the

3841
02:35:52,790 --> 02:35:50,370
message don't ignore them don't ignore

3842
02:35:55,280 --> 02:35:52,800
those signposts or whatever all right we

3843
02:35:58,219 --> 02:35:55,290
look for the signpost Nick Redfern your

3844
02:36:00,110 --> 02:35:58,229
of such a prolific author you have a new

3845
02:36:01,280 --> 02:36:00,120
book that's coming out very shortly can

3846
02:36:03,290 --> 02:36:01,290
you tell us what it's about

3847
02:36:05,929 --> 02:36:03,300
yeah I talk about three weeks it's

3848
02:36:07,670 --> 02:36:05,939
called the world's weirdest places and

3849
02:36:09,649 --> 02:36:07,680
ironically it deals with a lot of what

3850
02:36:12,920 --> 02:36:09,659
we spoke about tonight like portals and

3851
02:36:14,870 --> 02:36:12,930
doorways exam it's published by new page

3852
02:36:16,760 --> 02:36:14,880
books and they actually only asked me

3853
02:36:18,950 --> 02:36:16,770
what earlier this year is when I sort of

3854
02:36:21,320 --> 02:36:18,960
had to crank the book out that quick and

3855
02:36:24,080 --> 02:36:21,330
if I wanted to write a book on my sort

3856
02:36:26,030 --> 02:36:24,090
of favorite 25 paranormal hotspots

3857
02:36:28,820 --> 02:36:26,040
around the world and so that's what he

3858
02:36:30,590 --> 02:36:28,830
did it's sort of a study of these portal

3859
02:36:33,110 --> 02:36:30,600
areas that you know whether they're just

3860
02:36:37,010 --> 02:36:33,120
sort of blitzed by weirdness four years

3861
02:36:39,439 --> 02:36:37,020
of a whole wide range and so it's a

3862
02:36:41,719 --> 02:36:39,449
study like my favorite ones they said

3863
02:36:43,969 --> 02:36:41,729
crossing the centuries and literally

3864
02:36:47,719 --> 02:36:43,979
everywhere from the u.s. to the UK India

3865
02:36:49,700 --> 02:36:47,729
Australia Russia South America all over

3866
02:36:51,530 --> 02:36:49,710
the place and that'll be acted as I say

3867
02:36:53,000 --> 02:36:51,540
about two to three weeks and we'll

3868
02:36:54,860 --> 02:36:53,010
certainly look at the book and have you

3869
02:36:56,660 --> 02:36:54,870
back in a few weeks to talk about it

3870
02:36:58,099 --> 02:36:56,670
further just very briefly without

3871
02:37:01,370 --> 02:36:58,109
discussing the book cause I haven't seen

3872
02:37:04,370 --> 02:37:01,380
it and that is the you cover places like

3873
02:37:05,870 --> 02:37:04,380
Bermuda Triangle or skinwalker

3874
02:37:07,790 --> 02:37:05,880
stop asking what the only reason I

3875
02:37:10,490 --> 02:37:07,800
didn't put the skinwalker ranch in or I

3876
02:37:11,840 --> 02:37:10,500
didn't point pleasant in was because you

3877
02:37:16,790 --> 02:37:11,850
know they've really been done to death

3878
02:37:18,349 --> 02:37:16,800
but I've got places like Sedona Loch

3879
02:37:19,700 --> 02:37:18,359
Ness because a lot of people I would

3880
02:37:21,110 --> 02:37:19,710
like Ness to give people sort of a

3881
02:37:22,910 --> 02:37:21,120
flavour the book a lot of people don't

3882
02:37:25,250 --> 02:37:22,920
realize that you know people think a lot

3883
02:37:28,639 --> 02:37:25,260
less i think a lot less monster but

3884
02:37:30,439 --> 02:37:28,649
they're being UFO encounters at the lack

3885
02:37:31,790 --> 02:37:30,449
of been sightings of large mysterious

3886
02:37:33,979 --> 02:37:31,800
black cats

3887
02:37:35,689 --> 02:37:33,989
Aleister Crowley actually owned a house

3888
02:37:37,429 --> 02:37:35,699
on the shores of Loch Ness called

3889
02:37:40,639 --> 02:37:37,439
Boleskine house which was later owned by

3890
02:37:42,950 --> 02:37:40,649
Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin and that they

3891
02:37:45,439 --> 02:37:42,960
witchcraft activity there's a haunted

3892
02:37:47,840 --> 02:37:45,449
cemetery the Lark so those things like

3893
02:37:50,960 --> 02:37:47,850
this you know I point out an area that

3894
02:37:51,860 --> 02:37:50,970
he's sort of so you know just saturated

3895
02:37:53,841 --> 02:37:51,870
with strange

3896
02:37:55,940 --> 02:37:53,851
servus placing like that and the Sun

3897
02:37:57,410 --> 02:37:55,950
that people have you know possibly never

3898
02:38:00,890 --> 02:37:57,420
even heard of which is a good thing as

3899
02:38:03,200 --> 02:38:00,900
well name of the book again is the

3900
02:38:05,540 --> 02:38:03,210
world's weirdest places Oh sounds like

3901
02:38:07,040 --> 02:38:05,550
my apartment Nick Redfern where do we

3902
02:38:11,600 --> 02:38:07,050
find more of the stuff that you write

3903
02:38:14,091 --> 02:38:11,610
about Nick Redfern 14 blog spot.com or I

3904
02:38:19,400 --> 02:38:14,101
write regularly for mysterious universe

3905
02:38:22,030 --> 02:38:19,410
and online site Facebook you just type

3906
02:38:26,301 --> 02:38:22,040
in Redfern you can get me that way and

3907
02:38:28,040 --> 02:38:26,311
that's that main way 3 2 whatever and he

3908
02:38:29,450 --> 02:38:28,050
turns up here on the para class every so

3909
02:38:32,390 --> 02:38:29,460
often because he's one of our friendly

3910
02:38:35,420 --> 02:38:32,400
guest co-host and by the way you find us

3911
02:38:37,761 --> 02:38:35,430
a power cast we are the power cast on

3912
02:38:39,740 --> 02:38:37,771
Twitter there's a power cast fan club on

3913
02:38:41,900 --> 02:38:39,750
Facebook and there's a gene Steinberg

3914
02:38:44,360 --> 02:38:41,910
area on Facebook if you're really so

3915
02:38:52,540 --> 02:38:44,370
inclined Nick Redfern thanks for joining

3916
02:38:59,100 --> 02:38:55,551
[Music]

3917
02:39:02,130 --> 02:38:59,110
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3918
02:39:04,970 --> 02:39:02,140
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3919
02:39:08,910 --> 02:39:04,980
presentation of making the impossible